Thomas Sowell: Universal health care

Jewish World Review ^ | May 6, 2003 | Thomas Sowell

[Teacher317]

German and French friends have repeatedly told me that high-end medicine for the wealthy is much better in the U.S., but the situation is reversed for the average person

Well, imagine that... German and French people thinking in terms of class warfare. How surprising.

[Tailgunner Joe]

bttt

[freeper12]

>>So, before you go trying to spin my statment, PROVE yours.

I was agreeing with you and saying why should an HMO be guaranteed a profit when the other parties to the transaction (i.e. the doctor in your case, or the patients in my example) have no such guarantees.

I wasn't spinning anything...why don't you prove to me that no patient has ever had to declare bankrupty to get out of paying for medical expenses...which was my point.

Not sure why you got your panties all twisted in a knot.

[liberallarry]

These are friends telling me about personal experiences and impressions. My German friends are very wealthy, my French friends are medical professionals. It's you who are thinking in terms of class warfare.

[RJL]

Thomas Sowell, as always is spot on.

[Teacher317]

They make it a point to differentiate between rich and not-rich, and I focus on class warfare? You are a liberal, aren't you?

[liberallarry]

What I am is irrelant. What you are is an idiot if you think that money is not an important determinant of the quality of health care one receives.

If you compare health care in the United States to that of say ... Nigeria. It's better, period. If you compare it to that of Germany or France you find that the average person receives better health care in the European countries while wealthy people do better in the U.S.

Those appear to be the facts. If you can't handle them that's your problem.

[RWG]

Like so many pretty words used in politics, "universal health care" is seldom examined in terms of what its actual track record has been in the countries where it has been tried...let's see the track record for members of congress, the military, illegals, and criminals in this country. From what I hear its pretty good coverage.

[bonesmccoy]

Dear Freeper12,

I can not prove a negative. However, your previous statement asserted a positive, that patients have been put into bankruptcy by doctors who over charge.

The reality is that under HMO contracting, the doctor only receives $4.00 or $5.00 for an adult male per month. No matter how much service is rendered, the dollar amount is the same! So, there is absolutely no incentive for the medical group to see a primary care patient under an HMO contract.

I appreciate your agreement regarding HMO profit margins. However, the spin taken by the liberal media and their RAT politicians is that the skyrocketing cost of healthcar is related to over charges by unscrupulous doctors.

The reality is just the reverse. The HMO are sucking 20-30% of the premium dollar out in profit alone. The hospitals are sucking another 30% out. that leaves 40% of premium for drugs and all human labor. Of the 20% of the premium that goes to the IPA, only $5.00 makes it to the site of care.

The end result is no care and no access to a physician.

The Enron accounting in healthcare is a moral disgrace.

[bonesmccoy]

I have patients in the US under HMO care that are suffering unnecessarily from denial of care.

I am organizing already to counter this immoral conduct and have publicly alleged misconduct by local hospital executives.

This action will amplify as the abuses grow more apparent and the death/suffering grows more obvious.

what kind of medicine do you do?

[okie01]

It is a reported fact that more Canadian doctors come to the United States to practice than U.S. docs go to Canada.

Canadian doctors can only earn a certain prescribed sum each year. When they reach that total, they move to their U.S. practice -- which they share with another Canadian doctor who mans it the rest of the year.

As a consequence, Montana has a relatively high population of doctors.

[doc30]

Actually, I am a research chemist. The "doc" in doc30 was a nickname I was given at work since I am one of the original PhDs in the research facility where I work. However, my work is related to medical devices and I have friends in the medical profession in both Canada and the U.S. My wife is also trying to get into the pharmacy program at UF. Also, since I am Canadian, I have consumer experience in both systems of health care.

Once, when visiting family, I became extremely sick and needed to see a doctor in Ontario. Sice I was out of the country for several years, I had to pay $28 Cdn out of pocket to cover the doctor visit and the lab tests. It was so cheap it wasn't worth filing for insurance when I got home. The prescriptions ran about $20 Cdn for a course of antibiotics. On the other hand, when I see a doctor in the U.S., the exams seem to be more thorough.