Diesel engine may have sucked out submarine oxygen

Sydney Morning Herald ^ | May 5, 2003 | Indira Lakshmanan in Beijing

[Cincinatus' Wife]

The Chinese submarine accident in which 70 crew died may have been due to a malfunctioning diesel engine that sucked all the oxygen out of the hull, a Chinese Navy official says.

Investigators believe the crew died within two minutes, after submarine No.361 descended on a training mission two weeks ago. All the victims were found at their posts, and there were no signs of struggle, suggesting that death came upon the men quickly, the official said.

The accident occurred during a training mission on April 16, the official said, but was not discovered by the navy until 10 days later, when the submarine crew did not contact their base as expected. The crew had been instructed to maintain radio silence during training to practise concealing their location.

The Chinese military publicly attributed the tragedy to mechanical failure, giving no further explanation, but Western naval specialists familiar with diesel-powered submarines said the official's account was plausible.

The official said the submarine had charged its batteries from its diesel engine at the surface in preparation for descent. Diesel power is switched off in preparation for descent because diesel requires oxygen to burn, the specialists said.

In this case, mechanical failure is believed to have caused the diesel power to continue running, depriving the hull of its oxygen and suffocating the crew, the official said.

"That is very plausible, and I'm inclined to believe that's what happened," said retired admiral Lloyd Vasey, who served 36 years in the US Navy, 12 of them aboard diesel-powered submarines.

Mr Vasey said from Honolulu that "the first thing you do when you dive is you shut off the diesel because it sucks up a lot of air, switch to battery power and close the hatch. People don't forget to shut it down", he said of the diesel engine, which in Ming-class submarines is easily shut off.

Mechanical failure of the engine, air induction valve in the engine room, secondary air ducts, or a gasket were possible explanations, Mr Vasey said.

"But it's possible we may never know the cause."

The No.361 submarine was built in 1995, making it one of the newer of the Ming class that China produced from 1971 to 1996. Intended for patrols and coastal defence, it is copied from the decades-old Soviet Romeo class, which was based on a German U-boat produced in 1944.

The Ming class is considered obsolete by the Federation of American Scientists, but Mr Vasey said that he could see no reason for Beijing to retire its fleet of Ming-class submarines, now estimated at 13, because "accidents can happen to any subs".

The Ming class usually holds nine officers and 46 sailors, suggesting that other technicians or staff officers were aboard for this exercise.

The accident highlights vulnerability in China's ageing fleet of domestic and Russian submarines, estimated to number about 90.

Submarines are tactically useful for China, especially to enforce its claim on the island of Taiwan, because they are difficult to detect, and unseen submarines are a powerful deterrent to any enemy.

The Boston Globe

[The Pheonix]

Considering the fact that in 1945, China had ZERO industrial base, after Japan had bombed them "back to the stone-age". And considering that China only started to have Universal education and modern universities in 1911, and even this was disrupted in 1937-1945 when the Japanese attacked them in WW2. And considering that Mao put them back one generation during the "Cultural Revolution", ie 1965-1978. And China only truly began their Reformation and Open Policy in 1978, and today their industrial base is the "manufacturing plant" for the world,....They aint doing that badly.....

Only time will tell, be a little bit more patient

[The Pheonix]

RE your post #58

I read it and consider it extremely rascist while you do not

This is America, where I am entitled to my opinion as you are to yours

Let's leave it at that

[The Pheonix]

Re your posting # 10

I read in the "Jane's AeroSpace" online, an article about the Chinese Space program. Seems that , among other things the Chinese had muster a force of 30,000 engineers into one special city to work on their space program...

[btcusn]

I think that it has more to do with the type of govt than the race of the people. Look at Taiwan
Jack

[NFOShekky]

I would have no problem with the PRC's success in expanding its industrial base and domination of "low tech" manufacturing if it were not for statements and reports from the PLA general staff and PRC leadership that they consider us (the US) to be an enemy that must be destroyed! They can espouse moderation or "reformation" all they want, but as with the above statements and reports and with the recent EP-3 incident, they let their facade down and reveal their true intent! The PRC is therefore an enemy of the United States and should be dealt with accordingly!

[The Pheonix]

LOL

you said that the PRC leadership openly said/declared that they want to destroy us, and yet;

Our Pres Bush has already visited China twice in the last 2 years and had personally thanked the Chinese Govt and people for supporting us on the WOT. And Pres Bush has accepted another invitation to visit China yet again

Our Pres Bush had invited and hosted the Chinese Pres and his wife to his Crawford ,Texas Ranch on the 25 Oct 2002

Our Pres Bush and Secy Powell had said that China has "gifted leaders"

Our Pres Bush had telephone the PRC Pres many times to discuss the Iraqi War and to offer help in fighting SARS

If the Chinese had indeed, vowed to destroy us, should not Bush:

Break off all diplomatic ties with China?

Recall our Ambassador from Beijing?

Tell the Chinese to go to hell with their SARS?

[azhenfud]

"But it's possible we may never know the cause."

Sea gull pitched on the snorkel.

[The Pheonix]

sure, why not?

Birds had been known to cause civilian jet-liners to crash, by getting sucked in their their engines

so, why not on a sub, too

[j_tull]

The only reason I didnt address the snorkel mast was because I was considering the normal surface ventilation lineup,

But even "surface ventilate" has the main induction line up open and the main induction fan running. The valve lineup could have been hosed during rig for dive, but sheesh, I can't believe they would all just sit around while the O2 level dropped to below life sustaining. They need to keep looking, this ain't it.

[The Pheonix]

One comment before I log off;

Just before despatching Secy Powell to East Asia, 2 months ago, to tackle the N.Korean problem, Pres Bush had said," I am sending Secy Powell to the Far East to discuss the Korean issue with our CHINESE FRIEND, Japanese and South Korean Allies......and to seek their support....

[Billy_bob_bob]

Bad gull! Bad, bad gull! No herring for you!

[azhenfud]

Tings happen.
Zai Zhan, Pengyou.

[null and void]

Well said.

Don't underestimate the Chinese. Before Pearl Harbor "everyone knew" that Japanese couldn't be aviators because that had no sense of balance...

[null and void]

Politics is the mother of strange bedfellows...

[NFOShekky]

"If the Chinese had indeed, vowed to destroy us, should not Bush:
Break off all diplomatic ties with China?
Recall our Ambassador from Beijing?
Tell the Chinese to go to hell with their SARS?"

Yes to all of the above. Unfortunately politicians say things for political and pragmatic reasons that are necessary when said. The Communist government of the PRC will either collapse as almost all of the other Communist regimes have or we will end up fighting them sometime in the future.

[judicial meanz]

I love the tagline....LOL

You zoomies crack me up!

Welcome aboard.

[NFOShekky]

Thanks!!! "NFO" doesn't stand for "No Future Outside" for nothing!

[Brian Allen]

<< Apply your analysis to the Three Gorges dam project, and you've got a recipe for a catastrophe of unprecedented proportions.

When - and not if - that dam fails, it'll plunge China into an economic free fall. >>

Absolutely True. And it will fail.

But with or without it China in its present form is doomed.

The Peking-based pack of invading, conquering, colonizing, enslaving, lying, looting, thieving, mass-murdering [One hundred million plus -- and still counting!] psychopathological gangster bastards that so grandiosely calls itself "china" will never figure out how to create a government acceptable to its 1.3 billion slaves -- let alone how to keeps its hands out of "china's" treasury and banks and companies and corporations.

Or to build a trim-jack for an [Alaska Airlines] MD-80's tailplane.

Or to mix concrete in the right proportions and use the right amount of steel.

To build a dam.

Best ones -- Brian

[Brian Allen]

<< Was this in Outer Mongolia? >>

There too.

Been to Outer Montana lately?

Find a single ranch-hand's kid there older than ten who couldn't ride a trail-bike like a pro, drive a quad, plow the house paddock, bring the jeep back from the road when the school bus dropped him off, drive it to town if he has to?

Let me know when you find the first ten-year-old anywhere in china who can run a ride-on mower. I'll want to get his picture.

[Brian Allen]

As man cannot possibly experience another's emotions, be assured that if you are experiencing hatred [And I most-assuredly take your word for it that you are!] the only hatred you can possibly be experiencing is your own.

And, to remove any doubt about that, your ever-so-casual use of such of the practiced haters' ever-ready-to-hand hate speech as your lizard-brained Liberal-Psychosis reaction has caused you to have included in your vomitus has given you away and has revealed your Pathological Projection Sydrome to all.