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Song of concealed guns keeps repeating in Missouri
The Kansas City Star ^ | Friday, May 2, 2003 | LEWIS W. DIUGUID

Posted on 05/02/2003 8:45:17 AM PDT by TroutStalker

Some people never tire of the same old song.

In the Missouri General Assembly, the worn-out tune is the bill that would let people carry concealed guns under their clothing or in purses. They also could keep a firearm in the glove box or under the seat of their car.

Gun advocates for 12 years have tried to force this misguided measure into law. They drafted it as a referendum in 1999.

But voters didn't play along. Proposition B failed, with 52 percent of the voters opposing it.

This year the National Rifle Association and other gun lobbyists have a Republican-controlled legislature that wants to turn the conceal and carry bill into a statewide anthem. To no one's surprise, the Missouri House in March passed House Bill 349.

The Senate is expected to pass similar legislation before the session ends May 16. It's a bad sign of the times.

Crime is down, but fear and paranoia are up.

But concealed guns don't protect people. A recent Brookings Institution study showed that state laws allowing people to carry concealed firearms don't reduce crime and may even cause it to increase.

Since 1970, 33 states have passed concealed-carry laws. Thank goodness Missouri has been among the holdouts, outlawing concealed weapons since 1875.

The new bill would change that. It would enable people who are at least age 21 to have concealed weapons.

They'd have to have lived in the state at least six months or have permits issued by another state or local government. The bill also would allow out-of-state people to have concealed weapons in Missouri.

But there is no assurance that other states' laws are comparable to the one proposed here. Legislators are asking Missourians to "trust" that these guns will be in the right hands.

People who aren't citizens couldn't get concealed gun permits. That smells of fear borne from the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, preventing documented and undocumented workers from enjoying this gun-toting "privilege."

Missouri's gun bill also surfaces as the Homeland Security law starts letting pilots carry concealed firearms onto passenger jets. Fear over the endless war against terrorism and the war in Iraq has even made some of my anti-gun friends talk of getting guns and concealed weapons permits.

That's never OK. A public packing guns like cell phones will only increase the likelihood of the weapons going off at the worst possible times.

Conceal and carry permits wouldn't be issued to people who in the previous five years had misdemeanor convictions for a crime of violence or more than one conviction for drunken driving or drug possession. People found mentally incompetent or committed to a mental institution in the previous five years would be ineligible.

But who's to say the five-year restriction is long enough or that someone who seems OK today will still be OK tomorrow? Then who's going to take away the gun and the concealed weapons permit?

To get the permits, people would have to receive at least eight hours of training and prove they can handle a revolver and semiautomatic handgun. They'd have to hit a target at a distance of 21 feet with 15 of 20 shots.

The gun bill does prohibit citizens from having concealed guns in police stations. But what about traffic stops, which put officers on the street at risk?

Citizens couldn't take their concealed guns into sports arenas seating more than 5,000 persons. But what about kids' games at fields statewide where parents often go ballistic?

Concealed guns would not be allowed at hospitals, day care centers, schools, casinos, airports, jails, bars, churches or other places of religious worship if the minister says no. But saying no is what legislators should be doing for everyone's safety.

The House miserably failed that public safety test. The Senate will likely flunk, too.

I hope Gov. Bob Holden does the right thing and vetoes the bill, as he's promised, preventing it from becoming a mournful statewide song.


Lewis W. Diuguid is a member of The Star's Editorial Board. To reach him, call (816) 234-4723 or send e-mail to Ldiuguid@kcstar.com.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; News/Current Events; US: Missouri
KEYWORDS: banglist; ccw; concealedcarry; guns
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To: TroutStalker
In KC conceal and Carry law or not. Any person who isn't capable of swift and overwhelming force in self-defense might just as well be walking around naked. The law will just make it legal. Most people are doing it inspite of the lack of permission from the State. Our current level of police protection is non proactive. Usually all they do is chalk outlines and file useless paperwork. I'mnot knocking the police. Their hands are tied by a system at odds with itself and in cahoots with lawyers and corrupt officials.
21 posted on 05/02/2003 9:16:00 AM PDT by Lee Heggy (Spare yet effective and surprisingly well-coloured.)
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To: TroutStalker
Yeah, I believe Holden will have a pretty tough time of it in the primary. Hopefully, he'll end up being the RatBag candidate, anyway though. That way, I KNOW we'll get a Republican governor!
22 posted on 05/02/2003 9:21:02 AM PDT by EagleMamaMT
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To: Lee Heggy
Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six. If I were sitting on a jury of a peaceful citizen arrested of unlawful carry, there is no way I would vote to convict. The second amendment is the law as far as I'm concerned. All other gun laws are grounds for jury nullification.
23 posted on 05/02/2003 9:27:11 AM PDT by TroutStalker
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To: TroutStalker
I agree except that by carying a 'six' I have a better chance of living to be judged by twelve. The Federal government is pretty selective in enforcing the Bill of Rights over States Rights.
24 posted on 05/02/2003 10:01:27 AM PDT by Lee Heggy (Spare yet effective and surprisingly well-coloured.)
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To: TroutStalker; Desdemona
A public packing guns like cell phones will only increase the likelihood of the weapons going off at the worst possible times.

Yessss...at the Ballet, or during the REALLY quiet part of Beethoven's 9th at the StLouis Symphony Orchestra hall.

25 posted on 05/02/2003 10:18:45 AM PDT by ninenot
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To: TroutStalker
If I were sitting on a jury of a peaceful citizen arrested of unlawful carry, there is no way I would vote to convict.

The prosecution would not allow you to be on the jury in the first place.

26 posted on 05/02/2003 10:27:40 AM PDT by JimRed (Disinformation is the leftist's and enemy's friend; consider the source before believing.)
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To: TroutStalker
Wasn't that the election where the opposition used city buses to carry their anti-gun propaganda and on election night the cops raided the pro-gun headquarters which shut them down?
27 posted on 05/02/2003 11:19:42 AM PDT by Shooter 2.5 (Don't punch holes in the lifeboat)
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To: Oberon
"Um, because they're afraid and paranoid?"

Or, in the words of the "Great Maha Rushdi", "They live in fear and ignorance."
28 posted on 05/02/2003 11:49:31 AM PDT by PatrioticAmerican ("hatemonger")
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To: ninenot
Yessss...at the Ballet, or during the REALLY quiet part of Beethoven's 9th at the StLouis Symphony Orchestra hall.

At Powell Hall now (with the ninth this weekend) before every concert there is an announcement "Please turn off all cell phones, pagers, watches, etc."
29 posted on 05/02/2003 12:07:05 PM PDT by Desdemona
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To: Shooter 2.5
Diuguid is the KC Red Star's Marxist ideolog.
30 posted on 05/02/2003 12:13:54 PM PDT by Crucis Country
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To: TroutStalker
There are 35 states that have, or will have shall-issue CCW laws on the books. The latest ones were New Mexico, Colorado, and Minnesota.

That leaves 15 states that are either no CCW, or may-issue (to celebrities and politically connected) CCW.

Wisconsin, Missouri and Ohio are 3 states of the 15 that are having rumblings of becoming SHALL-ISSUE.

Too bad Kalifornia and New York are not. These two are the ones with the high crime rates. When a few bad guys from these states start getting killed by their potential victims, crime against persons will drop, while these criminals start doing burglaries and thefts instead of robbery and rapes.

31 posted on 05/02/2003 12:30:38 PM PDT by Frohickey
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To: TroutStalker
People on the north side of StL have been concealing for years, legal or not. Now that police department is somewhat straightened out (they really are trying), crime has dropped.

I think it was the county (the city is not in the county - yet) that voted the law down. St. Louis County does have a lot of soccer moms who vote. And they are afraid to go to the city because people carry guns.

Help!
32 posted on 05/02/2003 12:39:40 PM PDT by Desdemona
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To: TroutStalker
Fear over the endless war against terrorism and the war in Iraq has even made some of my anti-gun friends talk of getting guns and concealed weapons permits. That's never OK.

Curious statement, Diuguid! "Never OK?" It's become OK with your formerly anti-gun friends, but it's still "never OK?" Too much freedom will never be OK with Diuguid. Thanks for making it obvious.

33 posted on 05/02/2003 12:51:52 PM PDT by VadeRetro
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To: TroutStalker
The stage is set for the Missouri Senate to take up the House approved HS HCS HB349 REAL SOON... Maybe even this week!
From Packing.org

Anyone in Missouri, please get us a headsup and let us know when this is going to be debated in the Senate. I want to do another live feed like we did last time.
34 posted on 05/02/2003 1:13:30 PM PDT by Shooter 2.5 (Don't punch holes in the lifeboat)
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To: TroutStalker
"Misguided?"
My state must have a whole bunch of misguided people. (Arizona) Thank God.
35 posted on 05/02/2003 1:30:04 PM PDT by ndafill
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To: TroutStalker; flashbunny; PatrioticAmerican; EagleMamaMT; dd5339; Oztrich Boy; Lee Heggy; ...
Good God all Freaking mighty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=9ac435b50424fe01787bd6e6e915fed6&threadid=20979
36 posted on 05/02/2003 2:47:45 PM PDT by Shooter 2.5 (Don't punch holes in the lifeboat)
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To: TroutStalker; flashbunny; PatrioticAmerican; EagleMamaMT; dd5339; Oztrich Boy; Lee Heggy; jdege
Still searching for more news. That was the only website that reported and they are usually prompt and accurate. They beat us on the Minnesota Governor's signing of the CCW law.
37 posted on 05/02/2003 2:54:57 PM PDT by Shooter 2.5 (Don't punch holes in the lifeboat)
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To: TroutStalker
Here in Minnesota, the papers started with chortles about how stupid we were for thinking we could get the bill passed, followed by hysteria when they realized it had a chance, followed by outrage that we would think of doing this to the children, followed by sorrow for the end of civil society.

Seems like the KCStar is on the fast-track.

I hope you can manage a veto-proof majority in the Senate - the most states we've ever had pass shall-issue in one year was, if my info is correct, seven, back in 1995.

We're up to three, now, and Missouri, Nebraska, Ohio, and Wisconsin are still in play.

38 posted on 05/02/2003 3:00:16 PM PDT by jdege
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To: jdege
CCW just passed in the Missouri Senate by a vote of 23 to 7

That good enough for you???


Yippee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
39 posted on 05/02/2003 3:08:53 PM PDT by Shooter 2.5 (Don't punch holes in the lifeboat)
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To: Shooter 2.5
This may mean what we think it means:

http://www.senate.state.mo.us/03info/daily.htm

HB 0349 - Crawford - Allows issuance of permits to carry concealed weapons
05/02/03 -- SSA 1 for SA 2 to SS S offered (Caskey)
05/02/03 -- SA 1 to SSA 1 for SA 2 to SS S offered & defeated (Jacob)
05/02/03 -- SSA 1 for SA 2 to SS S adopted
05/02/03 -- SA 3 to SS S offered (Bray)
05/02/03 -- SA 1 to SA 3 to SS S offered & defeated (Bland)
05/02/03 -- SA 2 to SA 3 to SS S offered & defeated (Bray)
05/02/03 -- SA 3 to SS S defeated
05/02/03 -- SA 4 to SS S offered (Jacob)
05/02/03 -- SSA 1 for SA 4 to SS S offered & defeated
(Jacob) 05/02/03 -- SA 4 to SS S withdrawn
05/02/03 -- SA 5 to SS S offered & defeated (Coleman)
05/02/03 -- SA 6 to SS S offered & defeated (Bland)
05/02/03 -- SA 7 to SS S offered & defeated (Kennedy)
05/02/03 -- SS, as amended, S adopted
05/02/03 -- S Third Read and Passed

40 posted on 05/02/2003 3:10:03 PM PDT by jdege
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