The Idolatry of Ideology - Why Tax Cuts Hurt the Economy

alternatives ^ | Russ Beaton

[familyofman]

"The government can always deficit spend... well it could until that moronic balanced budget crap got written"

Well that crap was part of the Contract With America, and passed the House (balanced budget ammendment) with leadership from Newt & Tom Delay, it failed by 1 vote passing the Senate (2/3 majority required). I am and always have been a "deficit hawk" (Jim).
You also state that it's our money, that means deficits are your responsibilty not to pas off to your progeny. Spending constraints can lead to balance - if we ever get a chance to see them used.

[USMA '71]

This is a joke -- RIGHT??? If not, you are so far off-base here that remedial economics training is a necessity before future posting on this subject. Remember the old adage: "There are some who remain silent and are THOUGHT to be ignorant - and there are some who speak and take away all doubt." Guess where I think you fit.

Do you honestly believe "saving" and "investing" take money out of circulation? What a rediculous premise.

Perhaps you should comment on some other topic where you might be better prepared.

[Chances Are]

This, uh, attempt at economic analysis has me completely flummoxed. Is this guy trying to pull a Henry Hazlitt (Economics in One Lesson) for the Left? If so, he fails on any number of accounts.

To cut right to the chase, the heart of his argument is the old liberal bromide of "Only the Government can spend your money properly". Of course, when it came to offering logic and empirical data on past government spending, he gave us no insight on that!

This is the old shop-worn plaint of the rich being the bad guys - always. Riiiiiight. Government grows your food for you, markets and sells everything under the sun, provides plant and capacity, stimulates growth by telling us what to do with our money after the barest of essentials have been provided to the household, and is finally beginning to come around to the concept of telling us how to think.

I for one am glad this guy has taken the time out of (what I am sure is) his busy schedule to enlighten the rest of us plebes. It has taken us over 225 years, but we've finally come to the appropriate conclusion that our nation was founded on the wrong principles!

Whew! Whoda thunk?

Pardon me now while I go off to barf in the bushes...

What a dork....

CA....

[Jason Kauppinen]

"Do you honestly believe "saving" and "investing" take money out of circulation? What a rediculous premise."

That's straight out of John Maynard Keynes' "General Theory", and it's the school of thought that's being taught even today in colleges and universities in both the US and Canada.

Encouraging isn't it?

[3AngelaD]

He forgot to mention that the popularizer and promoter of this theme was none other than President Kennedy, the liberals' idol.

[discostu]

Government deficits are one of the most over analyzed things in the world. Like I said later in the post, the government just pays off debt with new debt, they sell 20 year t-bills to payoff 20 year old t-bills. Problem with the balanced budget thing is that it wasn't a spending constraint, they can still spend all they want they just have to steal it all from us. Given that government debt is accomplished by selling t-bills to willing volunteers it is most clearly NOT my duty for future generations to do anything with the debt. Most governments run at defecit most of the time, no big deal.

[kevao]

a tax cut returns money to high income people disproportionate to the middle or lower income taxpayer

Gee, maybe this is why:

Group's Share of Total Taxes (Source: IRS)

Top 1% (above $293,415) = 36.2%

Top 5% (above $120,846)= 55.5%

Top 10% (above $87,687) = 66.5%

Top 25% (above $52,965) = 83.5%

Top 50% (above $26,415) = 96%

Bottom 50% (below $26,415) = 4%

How many of you out there are realizing for the first time that you are "rich"?

[freeforall]

please sir may i keep a dollar I earned?

[freeforall]

bttt for all the people who think they should be allowed to keep the money they earn.

[familyofman]

Most governments run at defecit most of the time, no big deal.

Tell that to your state govenor. I'd like to see some support for your contention...the US government has been either in balance or surplus for most years (historically). But, that is not really a good reason for balance - I just thought I'd mention it.
Anever-ending cycle of debt is fine in theory, but sooner or later someone will have to pay the piper (common sense).

[joesnuffy]

Tax Cuts worked well for Regan & the U.S. but that was before NAFTA und GATT

[discostu]

That's the glory of t-bills, the piper is the American people, and they get paid 20 years later.

If we could force the government to balance the budget by cutting spending that would be great, but the silly balanced budget rules put in place never bothered with that. In the end all they've done is give the government a great excuse to raise taxes because they "have to balance the budget".

[berserker]

Lucky Ducky, I guess, not having to pay too much taxes.

[discostu]

According to the Treasury Dept America has by and large been in debt since day 1, we might not have beed deficit spending at a specific time (still looking at that) but we were carrying debt.
[Question] What caused the debt that United States now has?

[Answer] The total public debt is largely a legacy of war, economic recession, and inflation. It represents the accumulated deficits in the Government's budgets over the years. The United States first got into debt in 1790 when it assumed the Revolutionary war debts of the Continental Congress. At the end of 1790, the gross public debt was approximately $75 million. For a brief period in the mid-1830's the public debt was virtually zero. At the start of World War I in 1916, the public debt was $1 billion. It then rose to a peak of $26 billion in 1919 to finance the war. The debt declined for the next decade. During the Great Depression of the 1930's, however, the debt increased from $16 billion to $42 billion. During the Second World War the public debt rose sharply to a peak of $279 billion in 1946. From its postwar low in 1949, the outstanding public debt grew gradually for nearly the next two decades. Then, beginning at the time of the Vietnam War in the mid-1960's, the rate of the debt's increase accelerated sharply.

http://www.treas.gov/education/faq/markets/national-debt.html?IMAGE.X=0\&IMAGE.Y=0

[TBP]

Let's take on this idiot's central point.

When you receive a tax cut, you keep more of your own money and you have more money to use. Now, there are only three things you can do with it: spend it, save it, or invest it.

If you spend it, as this guy notes, it moves right back into the economy. If you save it, there is more money for banks and others to lend, which means more houses, cars, and other goods get bought. That's good for the economy. Now, if you invest it, companies have more money to expand and when they expand, they hve to hire more people. So whichever of the three things you do with your money will help the economy, just in different ways.

[Grymskull]

He needs to take a class from Walter Williams and Thomas Sowell.. This guy is a socialist pure and simple...

[TBP]

Russ Beaton is Professor of Economics at Willamette University in Salem, Oregon specializing in environmental economy, urban land economy and energy economy.

In ohter words, Russ Beaton is a Marxist moron.

[weegee]

Don't you know that "rich" people light cigars with paper money and that they stuff their mattresses with it? Even Scrooge McDuck kept moneybins so that he could go swimming in coinage.

[TBP]

The second type of subsidy derives from taking advantage of direct government programs. For instance, Archer Daniels Midland (“Supermarket to the World”) is rumored to collect about half a billion dollars each year for a methanol fuels project that no one ever derives fuel from. (Or is it ethanol? No matter—they grow a lot of corn.) You just have to know where to look and how to apply. It also helps to have important friends and lobbyists in Washington and all the state capitols to help write the enabling laws and keep the programs funded. Homeless people or those on food stamps should be so well connected.

And there should be NO subsidies from the government for anyone. But what does this Marxist moron think welfare is? It's a government subsiyd. And the homeless people on food stamps (also a government subsidy) have an exemption that puts their minimal income level well below the threshold for paying income taxes, and they don't pay employment taxes because they don't work. Now, the payroll tax ought to be cut as well as income taxes. And the personal exemption should be increased (if we're going to have income taxes.) But that would contradict this guy's Haveana-Peking ideology.

[familyofman]

Thanks for the link - I'll spend some time there soon.