Bush official says U.S. deeply hurt by German moves

Reuters | 5/02/03 | Erik Kirschbaum

[kattracks]

Bush official says U.S. deeply hurt by German moves

By Erik Kirschbaum

BERLIN, May 2 (Reuters) - The first U.S. cabinet member to visit Berlin since a rift between the two countries over the Iraq war said on Friday the United States felt betrayed and deeply hurt by the row.

U.S. Trade Representative Robert Zoellick also said Washington was watching warily moves such as "odd meetings" led by Germany and France to boost European defence integration and that the creation of a European counterweight to the United States was harmful for transatlantic relations.

But he told journalists that he believed mutual German-U.S. interests, especially in business, would bring the world's first and third largest economic powers together again.

"I'm here to extend my hand," he said.

"Germany was always a good partner for the United States in the past and will be in the future. There are strong mutual interests. It's not just because of the historically close ties, it's because of our mutual interests," he said.

He said millions of jobs in both countries depend on good relations.

"There's no denying how deep a sense of disappointment and hurt there is," Zoellick said before meeting German business and government leaders.

"When the chips are down, we'd like to be able to count on our friends and it's difficult when our friends are against us," Zoellick said. He noted the United States helped Germany by firmly backing reunification despite some European resistance.

"I can remember when Germany needed friends in 1989," said Zoellick, who is on a European tour aimed at putting troubled world trade negotiations back on track.

Referring to France as well as Germany, he added: "It wasn't just opposition or disagreement, but an active effort to undermine the United States and organise efforts against us."

TIES POISONED

Zoellick will not meet Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder, who angered President George W. Bush by disparaging U.S. moves on Iraq. Schroeder's sharp language sent relations into a tailspin.

Schroeder refused to send German soldiers to join the war, dismissed the war as an "adventure" that would "set ablaze" the region and even said Germany would not "click its heels" and follow the United States into the conflict.

U.S. officials then said ties with Germany were "poisoned."

The stinging criticism of the U.S. government was hugely popular in Germany and helped Schroeder come from far behind in surveys to beat challenger Edmund Stoiber in the 2002 election.

Bush pointedly did not congratulate Schroeder on his narrow victory. The two leaders have not spoken since November, even though Schroeder has recently said he regretted the "exaggerated remarks" made during the election campaign.

Zoellick, who was the last Bush official to visit Berlin on June 6, 2002, said the talk in Germany of making Europe a bulwark to stand up to the U.S. power was not helpful.

"Obviously our view is that this is not good for transatlantic relations," he said.

Zoellick said the meeting in Brussels this week of four European Union countries -- Germany, France, Luxembourg and Belgium -- to boost European defence integration had not gone unnoticed.

"It was an odd meeting in Brussels. It was not constructive and not something people respond very positively to."

05/02/03 08:28 ET

[TommyDale]

Now that the U.S. has announced that we are closing down our military bases in Germany, I wonder what the reaction will be? Tough luck.

[sarasota]

At least German beer sales are down in this country. And isn't there a withdrawal from Germany plan that goes up to 2010?

[Michael81Dus]

I think abandoning many bases (surely not all) is understandable since we´re no longer at the frontier between two rivals. My government has reduced the number of soldiers from 500,000 in 1990 to 280,000 in 2003, too. So why shall the US keep 70,000 forces here? I´m optimistic that 15,000 soldiers will be kept here...
As I said earlier, relations will be repaired in some years fully and yet today the tone isn´t aggressive anymore - we see first steps to express respect for the other again.

[wideawake]

Maybe it's time for the German electorate to allow Schroeder to go home and work on his fifth marriage, and let an adult run the country instead.

[Nonstatist]

As I said earlier, relations will be repaired in some years fully

Only after the Socialist government is replaced. ..At least Germany's opposition Party is more US friendly, although I'm concerned they might just be less fiendly than they were before the war. What would the Christian Democrats have done about the UN resolutions, etc? Probably just sat on their hands, I guess.

[wideawake]

There will be no respect for Germany in the US as long as Germany goes along with every item on France's agenda.

If Germany elects a respectable Chancellor soon instead of this Schroeder clown and shows a little independence from France, the relationship could be repaired quite quickly, I think.

I don't think there is anything France could do right now to help their broken relationship with the US. As long as any country associates themselves with the perfidious French, they will be guilty by association.

As we say: if you lie down with dogs, you'll get up with fleas.

[ckilmer]

Well the sorts of places that need christian missionaries are places like the Sorbonne in France. You might found a chair on Calvinist studies. The fellow lived in Paris for awhile before the Hugonauts got on the kings bad side.

[ckilmer]

I run into Germans occasionally aroung washington dc.

What I tell them is that its impossible to be a modern German without coming to terms with Martin Luther.

[the_doc]

Bump that one.

[Michael81Dus]

I am a Christian Democrat since my 16th birthday, and I have heard our spokesman for foreign affairs saying that a CDU-led government had been on the side of Spain, Britain and of course the US.

[Michael81Dus]

Agreed, but that is going to happen in 2006 (some years).

[Michael81Dus]

I´m not sure how you meant that. 3 things led to the end of the Middle Ages:

- the invention of Gutenbergs printing machine
- the discovery of the New World
- Martin Luther´s reformation

I´m a Protestant on my own, and of course I´m on good terms with his ideas. But what´s the relation between him and "being modern"?

[ckilmer]

When you listen to the Arabs talk about Crusaders and Pharonists--people generally know that by Crusaders they mean Christians--and christian conservatives in the USA for the most part. But who are they referring to when they talk about the Pharaonists ? (Pharaonists=People who believe in the Pharaoh--as in the God King whom Moses disputed with.)

[Aria]

I hope your party can get in control. Any chance of that?

[Michael81Dus]

In 2006?? Absolutely! Schröder won last year just because of the floodings in the East and the war, but voters regret their decision: polls show constantly a comfortable majority for us!! :-)

[ckilmer]

Michael81Dus

As a result of higher criticism,By the mid 19th century Luther's church in Germany had abandoned the central tenant of Chistianity ie that Jesus is fully God. (do google searches on the original arian heresy in the 3rd century AD and you wind up seeing some interesting parallels today)

Do you happen to know if Nietsche's father was familiar was familiar with "higher criticism." That is was Nietzche responding directly to the events inside the Luthern Church or was he just responding to the philosophical winds of the time.

I would define theology as ending in personality and character of God. Whereas philosophy ends in the personality and character of man.

[Michael81Dus]

Could be right. But frontiers of definitions aren´t easy to draw between philosophy and theology, in particular for me. Lutherians still believe in Trinitatis, that Jesus, Father in Heaven and the Holy Ghost are God.

[ckilmer]

Could be right. But frontiers of definitions aren´t easy to draw between philosophy and theology, in particular for me. Lutherians still believe in Trinitatis, that Jesus, Father in Heaven and the Holy Ghost are God.
/////////////
I don't know how explicit the german churchs are. What came to be known as "higher criticism" didn't reach the USA from Germany until the 1890's or so. It was taught in the seminaries of the mainline protestant denominations. The pastors who emerged from the seminaries would use trinitarian-like language but in the seminaries they were taught that Jesus was not fully God. So the people in the congregation would think that the pastors meant one thing when in fact, they meant another.

The christian language is very plastic. the words can be turned and bent to mean virtually anything.

If you want to see how "higher criticism" worked in germany
do a google search of "higher criticism" and "Germany".

[Michael81Dus]

k