[general_re]

Objectisim holds that the good must be defined by a rational standard of value, that pleasure is not a first cause, but only a consequence, that only the pleasure which proceeds from a rational value of judgment can be regarded as moral, that pleasure, as such, is not a guide to action nor a standard of morality.

But again, that's simply asserted, not proven, and it hardly makes objectivism and hedonism mutually exclusive in any case. Why is it that "only the pleasure which proceeds from a rational value of judgment can be regarded as moral"? Can you prove that, and can you do it objectively, and not normatively?

I value pleasure above pain - and who can argue that this is an irrational preference? - and therefore I pursue pleasure as an end unto itself, taking care to rationally maximize it whenever possible, and minimize pain wherever possible. So why am I not an objectivist?

The problem is that Rand wants to cast some personal preferences as "rational" and others as "irrational". Well, good luck, but personal preferences just don't lend themselves to that sort of categorization. Saying that altruism is an "irrational" personal preference, and self-interest is "rational" is virtually indistinguishable from saying that preferring chocolate ice cream is "rational", but preferring vanilla is "irrational". At best, it's a completely arbitrary decision, not provable or demonstrable in any sort of rational way, and at worst, what it does is simply define the speaker's (Rand's, in this case) preferences as "rational", and everyone else's as "irrational".

[eBelasco]

Saying that altruism is an "irrational" personal preference, and self-interest is "rational" is virtually indistinguishable from saying that preferring chocolate ice cream is "rational", but preferring vanilla is "irrational". At best, it's a completely arbitrary decision, not provable or demonstrable in any sort of rational way, and at worst, what it does is simply define the speaker's (Rand's, in this case) preferences as "rational", and everyone else's as "irrational".

Years ago I asked my political theory prof a form of this question, namely "Well, would Jesus, various saints, be said to have not acted rationally?" and the response was basically "Ask me about real people. Next question." Not very satisfactory, and at 19, I didn't put up a fight.

[Hank Kerchief]

But again, that's simply asserted, not proven,..

You're right. Just live by your whims. It'll all work out.

Just don't come to a objectivst with your hand our when it doesn't.

Hank

[Roscoe]

The problem is that Rand wants to cast some personal preferences as "rational" and others as "irrational".

Why?! Because I said so, that's why!!!