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To: jennyp
No, appealing to the behavior of other species to ground your moral code for humans is almost completely wrong. (I may say "completely wrong" after thinking about this some more.)

No it's not. The claim, after all, is that we must not "act Darwinian," because it's morally wrong. Well, why is it wrong, when it so clearly works well for other species? What is it about our (evolved) brains that automatically excludes us from Might Makes Right?

On what basis can you justify the fact that "decid[ing] for ourselves how to live" must exclude my taking advantage of those weaker than I am?

The answer boils down to this: because you said so.

242 posted on 05/01/2003 3:24:15 PM PDT by r9etb
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To: r9etb

No it's not. The claim, after all, is that we must not "act Darwinian," because it's morally wrong. Well, why is it wrong, when it so clearly works well for other species? What is it about our (evolved) brains that automatically excludes us from Might Makes Right?

On what basis can you justify the fact that "decid[ing] for ourselves how to live" must exclude my taking advantage of those weaker than I am?

The answer boils down to this: because you said so.

No, it boils down to: What kind of world would it be if this was the operating principle? Would "might makes right" set up a virtuous circle of increasing prosperity, or would it create a vicious circle where civilization never would have gotten off the ground in the first place? And which kind of resulting world would you rather live in?

See, that's where the "enlightened self-interest" calculation comes in: at the end of this proposed principle playing itself out in the long run. That's where the critique of self-interest-based morality always fails. Y'all keep confusing short term, ad-hoc self interest with enlightened self interest. When you're dealing with questions of principle, you're necessarily forced to examine the results of the being used by everybody in similar situations over time - i.e. being used as a principle. And on this level, might-makes-right fails badly, IMO.

250 posted on 05/01/2003 3:38:38 PM PDT by jennyp (http://objectivism.bestmessageboard.com)
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To: r9etb
On what basis can you justify the fact that "decid[ing] for ourselves how to live" must exclude my taking advantage of those weaker than I am?

Because to do so would make us hypocrites. We don't really believe that might makes right is an absolute. Thus we labor to predicate any exercise of might on other demonstrably (or at least as demonstrably as we can) rightnesses. We don't send our Army into Mexico or Canada not because we can't, but because we believe we'd be wrong to do so. Again, your "Might makes Right" premise is backwards.

251 posted on 05/01/2003 3:38:57 PM PDT by laredo44
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