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To: piasa
If China had invented the virus, they would also have the anti-dote for it, right?

If China is the victim of a Bio-attack, it could be from several possible sources:

Islamic terrorists groups--Osama Laden had said in an Arab TV in 2001, that "..after I had destroyed the US , I will next destroy China, the World's second greatest power...". Islamic Separatist Terrorist groups from the Xinjiang Province in China have been carrying out terrorist bombings attacks on Chinese civilians, even bombing Chinese school-buses ,and killing 100s of Chinese school-children

Non-governmental Right-Wing Anti-Communist Extremists groups, from the US, Japan etc

Taiwanese Separatist Groups-the more extreme ones

It is unlikely that any Govts would do this
12 posted on 05/01/2003 4:50:53 AM PDT by The Pheonix
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To: *Bio_warfare; *China stuff
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13 posted on 05/01/2003 5:33:34 AM PDT by Free the USA (Stooge for the Rich)
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To: The Pheonix; piasa
Hello, Feng. I see one of our resident ChiCom netagandists, "The Pheonix," is back.

I don't think it is bio-warfare virus, but it is not inconceivable.

Concerning your knee-jerk communist defense, and your comment:

If China had invented the virus, they would also have the anti-dote for it, right?

Read the #6 article at here from an April 24 report and then translate the key part that addresses your comment for piasa and the rest of the folks here at FR.

20 posted on 05/02/2003 7:27:33 AM PDT by tallhappy
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To: The Pheonix
If China had invented the virus, they would also have the anti-dote for it, right?

Not neccessarily. It would depend upon the stage of the research. You have to create the 'bug' first before you can find a way to fight it- until you do that you have to be very, very careful about containment. Only after you've made at least a small supply of the pathogen can you have samples to introduce to lab animals or research subjects, and only then can you try to find a treatment. When introduced to lab animals, containment is more difficult than the earlier stage of research. Now you have to contain the animals, too- and isolate them from other critters and vermin- as well as dispose of their waste in a safe manner. The Chinese aren't known for being overly concerned about safety. This means more and more people are involved in the chain of responsibility, and the more people involved, the greater the chance of a mistake.

China is not a first-rate power nor are its institutions up to western standards. Their citizenry have low morale, poor living and working conditions, and this is in large part a result of corruption and inefficiency throughout every level of society. There is a strong incentive in all societies which are centralized to cover up bad news as long as possible as the bearers of such news are not going to be received well- we saw this in Iraq and in the USSR, and we saw it in this case with China, where they hid the problem rather than to confer with others on how best to take action to prevent "collateral damage." There's not much innovation going on in China, either. Instead they depend on corporate espionage as well as the more traditional kind to advance the stage of their technological development.

It's possible the Chinese could get into something over their heads because they skipped over the stages of development which would have prepared them for unexpected problems- the Chinese have been known to religiously copy every detail of swiped tech including the flaws, because they didn't fully understand or explore the trechnology before replicating it. All of this means that people will be careless, unwitting, or may even act out of disgruntlement, none of which is conducive to meticulous lab work.

That doesn't mean they have a bioweapon on their hands- it may mean they have unwittingly allowed a research project get out of hand. Or this may be "natural" - China has some serious problems with city planning and the sanitation is quite "third world." In this case an engineered pathogen released into the environment could be disaster.

If China is the victim of a Bio-attack, it could be from several possible sources:

It could be the victiom of a natural outbreak of a mutated pathogen, an attack by internal dissenters, a lone nut, external enemies, or some researcher could simply have screwed up. going by the KISS method, the first and the last seem more probable.

Islamic terrorists groups--Osama Laden had said in an Arab TV in 2001, that "..after I had destroyed the US , I will next destroy China, the World's second greatest power...".

I haven't heard that rant; it doesn't sound like one of his rants. He would have mentioned Israel, Russia, and probably even India before China as his target. Also, China is NOT the world's second-greatest power; it's ability to project power is virtually nil. Of course, bin Laden's accuracy rating is low and he may not know that, but it has not been lost on his followers in al Qaeda that China is a good trade partner. We fire a cruise missile at al Qaeda, al Qaeda sells it to China for their reverse engineering program.

Islamic Separatist Terrorist groups from the Xinjiang Province in China have been carrying out terrorist bombings attacks on Chinese civilians, even bombing Chinese school-buses ,and killing 100s of Chinese school-children

I doubt they are able to do much bioresearch. Islamic separatist terrorists verses Chinese communists trying to integrate Xinjiang- it's hard to tell those two terrorist groups apart. One obeys Allah and blows up people, the other obeys the socialist state and cheers on tanks in Tianamen square.

Assuming Xinjiang terrorists did it, they would have had to be supported by someone else- I doubt Xinjiang is a hotbed of Islamic bioresearch. What state would want to hand over bioweapons to strangers in Xinjiang? Pakistan? I doubt it since the Pakis wopuld rather deal with China than risk ticking it off. Iraq? I doubt that- Iraq was a client of China. India wouldn't do it as they would fear it would be used on them. Iran and Cuba? Not likely- they're buddies. Russia? Unlikely as they have their own Islamic separatist prolems and wouldn't want blowback. A criminal syndicate might sell some old Russian materials.

Non-governmental Right-Wing Anti-Communist Extremists groups, from the US, Japan etc

There is no such thing as "right" and "left" politically, at least not as it is commonly - and erronously- presented, the opposite ends of a bar. They are really two ideological Siamese twins of the modern "left," adjacent points on a political chart. The so-called left, Communism, is just International Socialism. The so-called right, called Socialism is just National Socialism. Both are group-rights socialist ideologies - and thus are in opposition to individual liberty- which is what we call conservatism here in the US. The American right is antisocialist- and is in opposition to both forms of socialism, national and international. Socialism and communism are extremist ideologies and murderous in the extreme; opposing them in any fashion is not extreme. At the worst, it can only be on par.

Taiwanese Separatist Groups-the more extreme ones

There is no such thing as an "extreme" Taiwanese separatist, nor even a "separatist" Taiwanese. That you refer to anticommunists as extreme, when communism is itself a horrific extremist ideology, and you refer to Taiwanese NATIONALISTS as "separatists," indicates you are probably mainland Chinese. Taiwan, never being the territory of the communist Chinese government, cannot "separate" from it. It has never been under the rule of the mainland regime, and if anything, its government preceded the one currently occupying China. The mainland government, by the way, is the rebellious "separatist" government. An "extremist" would be a Taiwanese who wants to integrate with a communist state.

It is unlikely that any Govts would do this

It's probably true that no government would do it deliberately. But it is very possible, assuming it's not "natural," that a government agency of China or Chinese research facility could have accidently released it just as has happened with the Russians.

22 posted on 05/03/2003 12:19:45 AM PDT by piasa (Attitude adjustments offered here free of charge.)
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To: The Pheonix
If China had invented the virus, they would also have the anti-dote for it, right?

Not necessarily. They may have been working on that part when the virus escaped.

It is also possible that a few million indigenous casualties could be seen as acceptable losses when infecting the world, especially by a nation of a Billion people. The trail leads pretty firmly back to China, source of many of the latest flu varieties.

It is entirely possible, given sanitation there, that this is simply another mutated virus strain, like swine flu.

24 posted on 05/03/2003 12:31:47 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe
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