We Must Become Second Amendment Zealots If We Are To Survive.

Sierra Times ^ | 27 April 2003 | Michael Gaddy

[Con X-Poser]

<< Now that we have a majority in the House and Senate, we can go on the offensive which is something we couldn't do before. >>

Then why aren't 'we' going on the offensive? Why are we standing pat at BEST?

[Zavien Doombringer]

Does the Constitution says what form the declaration must take? Or the wording it must contain? NO

Then why was "Resolution of Force" used instead of "Declare War"?

[Shooter 2.5]

It looks like the first test is going to be the Assault Weapons Bill. Unfortunately, that's over a year from now.

[capitan_refugio]

"Then why was "Resolution of Force" used instead of "Declare War"?" To make the vote politically palatable for some of the Senators and Representative. It's called "plausible deniability" or "political cover." ("You can fool some of the people all of the time, or all of the people some of the time ..." - Lincoln) The resolution, however, had the full effect of a war declaration.

[capitan_refugio]

What is "tyranny"? If you look up the definitions you will see a common thread - "absolute power." In the exercise of that absolute power you will also notice other traits: oppressiveness, harshness, severity, cruelty, restrictiveness.

We just removed a true tyrant from power. You offend me when you compare our government to that one.

Now, when it comes to taxes, I have great sympathy with your observations. But our tax system is not the problem. We are all guaranteed "No taxation without representation." If you don't like the tax codes, work to elect people who will change them!

As to your other points regarding public schools and social welfare, you are just showing yourself to be a fringist. Ask yourself the same questions, in the negative (i.e. "Is it unconstitutional to start a public school" etc.). You will find the Constitution is silent on these matters, so the rights are reserved to the States and the People.

[capitan_refugio]

If you really think the City Government of Chicago is tyrannical, read up on Thomas Jefferson and some of the other founders of the country and framers of the Constitution. They knew how to take care of such matters. In particular, read their contemporary comments about the Second Amendment.

[TLBSHOW]

BOOKMARKED

[Zavien Doombringer]

Now, when it comes to taxes, I have great sympathy with your observations. But our tax system is not the problem. We are all guaranteed "No taxation without representation." If you don't like the tax codes, work to elect people who will change them!

Again, if you read Title Code 26, you will find that our own government doesn't play by it's own rule book. This is a "rogue" Government. Because the people do not or will not stand up for what is right, the government will continue to run rampant.

We just removed a true tyrant from power. You offend me when you compare our government to that one.

We have "checks and Balances" do we not, it is this same government that kept him in there even after a Impeachment! ever wondered why? Fear of reprisals!

As to your other points regarding public schools and social welfare, you are just showing yourself to be a fringist. Ask yourself the same questions, in the negative (i.e. "Is it unconstitutional to start a public school" etc.). You will find the Constitution is silent on these matters, so the rights are reserved to the States and the People.

Tell me why are we sending your hard earned dollars to other countries? Tell me why there had to be welfare reforms passed by the Federal legislation? Tell me why Public schools are being funded by Federal Dollars when it's a "State" reserved right? Where ever Federal money is, it becomes a Federal issue, or property. If The constitution is silent on these issues, why is the federal government "assuming" these powers when the Constitution states that where the Constitution is silent the States do assume those rights? You see, we are in a tyranical governing power, the Federal government is becoming the "absolute power".

What is "tyranny"? If you look up the definitions you will see a common thread - "absolute power." In the exercise of that absolute power you will also notice other traits: oppressiveness, harshness, severity, cruelty, restrictiveness.

You are kidding right...Ruby Ridge, Waco, Oklahoma City, Elian Gonzales, sure, I mentioned items under the last administration, but who let these things happen? CHECKS AND BALANCES my friend, you are only looking at 1 of 3

[capitan_refugio]

I was a history minor in college (geology major). You listed some interesting incidents, but I don't think they match the concept I was thinking about, or the one that had been used as an example in an earlier post (A-10 attack plane firing Hellfire missiles at citizens).

Let's look at the "Bonus March" of 1932. Over 20,000 WWI vets had marched on and encamped in Washington D.C. They were demanding early payment of service vouchers (due to be paid in 1945). The marchers had clashed with D.C. police, who had been overwhelmed. Three of the leaders of the marchers were known Communists trouble makers. When the House passed an early payment bill, but the Senate failed to pass the bill, the marchers became riotous. D.C. police could not handle the situation and there was no State militia or National Guard to call upon.

Hoover called on the Army to restore calm before a full-blown rebellion erupted. Douglas MacArthur ordered the Army to remove the illegal squatters. They did so without firing a shot! The Army fixed bayonets and the Cavalry drew their sabres, but there was no gunfire. The Army torched the illegal encampments and also used tear gas - a common enough police techniques. Although it was a public relations disaster for Hoover, the Army showed remarkable restraint.

In the case of the National Guard incidents at the Kent State and Jackson State in 1970, you are dealing with non-federal forces. In both cases, you had state National Guard units reacting in a defensive posture. I disagree with your statement "... they posed no threat to the Guard. At Kent State, they did pose a threat by their very numbers and actions, and in light of the events of the prior 24 hours.

At the Branch Davidian complex outside of Waco, TX, I think we witnessed a mass execution. I agree that the actions of the Clinton Administration to end the seige were an abuse of power and totally unjustified. However, the final "assault" was made by "police" forces and not military forces. Any military forces in the area played an auxilary role, at worst.

[from occupied ga]

You're either idiots or shills

Why can't they be both?

[capitan_refugio]

You mention quite a few items here. Let me reply to the ones I know about.

My point on taxation is, don't blame the code. Blame the representatives who wrote and who support the tax code.

Regarding the Clinton impreachment: Clinton was impeached (charged with a crime or crimes which could be cause for removal from office). He was tried on 4 counts in the Senate. The Senate, acting as a jury, failed to muster a 2/3rds majority on any of the counts to convict and remove him. There were enough Democrats in the Senate, if they voted as a block, to stop his removal. Impeachment is a political trial. Clinton is still well within the Statute of Limitations on criminal charges, but I don't think that will happen. Reprisals? No, politcal reality. Nevertheless, the process worked. Had Clinton, or any President, been a tyrant, there would never have been an impeachment.

You make a point about Federal dollars going into State schools. When the Federal Government mandates certain programs, they are supposed to pay for them. The money is going into those "programs." My wife works as a special education teacher in the County school district. Many of her students are entitled to Federal funds, earmarked directly to them.

I have said before that I think the various governments we elect have too much influence in our lives. That's why I work hard to elect people who believe in smaller, less intrusive government. But I don't believe they have absolute power. The examples you cite are ones that show excessive force by various police forces, not government tyranny.

[capitan_refugio]

By the way, when I mentioned in the previous post that we "removed a true tyrant from power" I was talking about Saddam Hussein, not Bill Clinton ... although I understand the confusion. ;^)

[Zavien Doombringer]

The examples you cite are ones that show excessive force by various police forces, not government tyranny.

And these police forces are from what agencies? CIA (federal) FBI (Federal), ATF (Federal),U.S. Marshalls (Fed) All Government agencies involved at all of these events. Do not get me wrong, I am not an "alarmist". I know my day to meet the Lord will come, but for the future of our next generations, we need to clean this Federal mess up!

I may not agree with the Branch Davidians, if they broke the law, they should be punished, however just because they were different, doesn't mean that they had to die like they did.

I may not have agreed with with the style of living the Weavers had at Ruby Ridge, but what caused that issue? Something about giving up arms?

The Justice Department acted too quickly in my opinion to convict Nichols and McViegh. Because America wanted an answer, it made the Militia look like a bunch of fanatics.

The Title Code 26 is a wonderfuly confusing piece of work. The average "joe" couldn't decipher the entire document, niether can most attorney's and congressman. If you were to actually read it, it protects the American working citizen, not penalize him/her. The Legislators use this document to hide thier agenda and write thier own interpretation. With no one to refute it, it becomes law. There isn't anything wrong with the Title Code 26, it's those that misinterpret. Like some I know with the Bible. True, electing those that will make things better could help, but let's be real here. It isn't going to get any better.

Now, I am all for the States taking over welfare, Schools, roads, pet projects and such. I leave the Federal Government to legislate for the Commerce and defense of the nation. If those in Congress, Supreme Court, and executive office feel that poor nations need money, have them give out of thier own pockets, not with mine. I have a small nation I am trying to take care of. (4 kids, wife, dog, 2 mortgages, 2 cars...etc.)

[PhilipFreneau]

Oh, uh, that's just peachy but I think you may have misunderstood me. I didn't ask what you believe in. I asked what do you actually DO to protect your Rights.

I told you already, but I suppose you did not understand the bit about appeasers and the two-steps forward, one-step backwards. I argue against appeasers, such as the NRA, who directly or indirectly support a gradual and silent encroachment on our RKBA. It is better the tyrant usurp our RKBA in a single piece of legislation so there will be a chance for rebellion.

You find out that Congress is trying to pass a Bill that will ban military ammunition. They may or may not have the votes because the gun grabbing dems control the House and Senate. You live 1000 miles from Washington D.C. and you have a full time job. The vote is in one month. What are you going to do about it?

Nothing. It would be a total waste of time, and counter-productive to our RKBA. If it doesn't pass, we still have 20,000 laws infringing our RKBA. If it passes, we have 20,001. Big deal.

[Shooter 2.5]

You would do nothing. Well, at least you're honest about it.

[Eaker]

Bump to swipe the flag pic when I get home!!!

[ought-six]

I was a history major (B.A. History, University of New Orleans). Some of your points are well-taken. I realize that some of the incidents did not involve federal troops, but they were troops, nonetheless (and subject to federalization if called upon in that regard). But as for Kent State, even the National Guard officers commanding later testified that the Guard was in no immediate danger, and that in fact most of the students were 300-400 yards away. Oh, you had some students throwing tear gas cansiters back at the troops, but they landed much too far away to constitute any real threat. Kent State happened because a Guardsman got trigger happy, and started something that never should have occurred. Immediately the shots were fired all the officers and NCOs began ordering a cease fire, and were not subtle about it.

[capitan_refugio]

I still think the context of Kent State is often overlooked. As I recall, the ROTC building had been torched the night before. Also, there had been widespread looting, window breaking, and drinking in the town.

I remember seeing some home film, taken by a student in a dorm or apartment. It shows the Guard on the top of the hill, with hundreds of students headed their way, up the hill and out of nearby buildings. The situation looked provocative, and the events of the previous 24 hours did not help things. And, as you point out, there was a breakdown in command.

Nevertheless, I don't think that the Kent State incident is a good example of the Federal Government using military force against the population.

[RebelDawg]

We saw what happened in Iraq, with our fine military just walking over an entire Iraqi army. Do the RKBA folks _really_ believe they could do better? If so, they are deceived.

I hear garbage like this all of the time from snot nosed civilian lefties! So I feel the need to point out a small fact that most of you commie pinko fascists seem to ignore...

That fact is that a very large portion of those serving in the United States Military are in fact R.K.B.A. types A.K.A. American gun owners. Hello, anybody in there numbskull??? We are the one's who are flying the A-10s, driving the M-1's and defeating America's enemies abroad. If you think that we will one day come home and start slaughtering American patriots instead of taking out the trash in America that is the people like yourself then you sir are the one whom is deceived!

You and the rest of your un-American cronies might want to wake up, put the crack pipe down and take a deep breath of reality now!

--Rebel Dawg

SSgt USMC