Europe quiescent over American-run Gulag (HURL!!)

The Times of India ^ | 4/26/2003 | RASHMEE Z AHMED

[Joe Brower]

Europe quiescent over American-run Gulag
EUROVISION/RASHMEE Z AHMED

TIMES NEWS NETWORK
SATURDAY, APRIL 26, 2003

It may all have been very different if we were talking about the rights of terrorists operating in Jammu and Kashmir or the extradition of Abu Salem to India. But, Britain's famous sense of fairplay and Europe's exaggerated emphasis on human rights is as nothing when it comes to the following, intensely ugly facts:

At least 20 European nationals, from countries ranging right the way across the European Union, are presently incarcerated in the legal black hole, that American-run Gulag, called Guantanamo Bay.

Though impossible to confirm, it is entirely likely that none of these ‘Europeans' is white. The only Taliban-al Qaeda fighter America has publicly charged, tried and despatched with due legal process is the white Muslim American convert, John Walker Lindh.

Britain, Denmark, Spain, Belgium and France are all accused by human rights groups of publicly caring little and privately not at all that their citizens continue to be illegally incarcerated with more than 660 detainees.

Sweden is the only European exception, bravely and somewhat controversially, to have protested most forcefully about the "legal limbo" in which its lone national is being held in Guantanamo Bay's Camp Delta.

Few in public or political life in Britain, America's chief ally and cheerleader, appear worried their own nationals make up the largest ‘Western' contingent at Guantanamo Bay.

The West's conspiracy of silence over Guantanamo Bay is deafening but it may actually speak volumes about multi-culturalism and the real-time skirmishes of the clash of civilisations. Is multi-culturalism really an article of faith for Britain and the new EU? Or is just a fashionable marketing tool for ready-chilled meals and ethnic room chic?

Unlike the Stalinist Gulag, there may never be a latter-day Alexander Solshenitsyn to tell us and lay bare the reality of the Stars and Stripes Gulag. Few believe we will ever know, even later, whenever the morally brutalised American administration declares its "war on terror" to be over.

But it is striking that Europe's carefully-constructed, complex architecture of laws, human rights legislation, fussy safety procedures and virtually 24-7 diplomatic do-gooding is almost quiescent while the world's most powerful country drives a battering ram through the gates of civilised conduct.

Now, the Americans have admitted they're holding children captive as well. The Europe that is perilously strict about visa violations, smoking in public, over-long sausages and extraditing Salem to a country where he could receive the death penalty, is unresponsive.

The detained men, who were dramatically flown to the remote military base more than 16 months ago, are still, illegally classified "enemy combatants". In defiance of the Geneva Convention and all international law, they continue to be held without charges, without access to lawyers.

When the rhetoric of rights and responsibility is directed at the Third World, it may be right to remember, say, these sons of Tipton in the English Midlands, and hundreds of others. Terrorists or Taliban, reckless adventurers or the unluckiest of innocents, Guantanamo Bay raises serious concerns about their future, their health, the future of international law and health of the Western concept of justice-for-all.

[Joe Brower]

Holy smokes -- where to begin? I post this here in order to gather responses and ideas on how to counter this. I am heavily involved in a debate with a host of IT professionals from various European countries, Australia, etc. who all worship this sort of "news" as gospel. To hear them, American is Nazi Germany reborn.

Sheesh!

[Conspiracy Guy]

Whenever faced with such a debate, I am fond of saying, "You're right we are babarians, I guess it's in our blood". Say this while wringing your hands, then sigh, and walk away with your head down. It is very amusing to feel their reaction.

[Mister Baredog]

But it is striking that Europe's carefully-constructed, complex architecture of laws, human rights legislation, fussy safety procedures and virtually 24-7 diplomatic do-gooding is almost quiescent while the world's most powerful country drives a battering ram through the gates of civilised conduct.

Gee, I would have thought that "murdering terrorists" hiding amoung civilians, killing civilians, would count for something. The Geneva Conventions need an update, they never contemplated how really LOW some would go. Of course I'm pretty sure this author probably thinks "suicide bombers" are really "freedom fighters". Anything in the Geneva Conventions about that, I didn't think so.

[Mister Baredog]

Whenever faced with such a debate, I am fond of saying, "You're right we are babarians, I guess it's in our blood". Say this while wringing your hands, then sigh, and walk away with your head down. It is very amusing to feel their reaction.

Sounds like a novel and useful approach. LOL!

[pcx99]

While I don't degree on the severity of this post, I do, unfortunately have to agree with the premise.

The american prison on Guantanimo is unamerican -- it is counter to the constitution, it is counter to everything the US has stood for on the international stage in human rights.

There are people at guantanimo who are being held without trial, without presumption of innosence until proven guilty, without benefit of rule of law, or even the geneva convetion. And there ARE minors being held there.

Like it or not, as long as guantanimo operates as a prison, the moral standing of the US in the world is reduced. How can we lecture cuba about human rights while we maintain a prison holding untried people and children a few miles from where they do?

This isn't a left or right issue, this is a moral issue.

[Welsh Rabbit]

The West's conspiracy of silence over Guantanamo Bay is deafening but it may actually speak volumes about multi-culturalism and the real-time skirmishes of the clash of civilisations. Is multi-culturalism really an article of faith for Britain and the new EU?

Notice how the writer doesn't address the detainee's guilt or innocence, but instead tries to make it an issue of race.

Sweden is the only European exception, bravely and somewhat controversially, to have protested most forcefully about the "legal limbo" in which its lone national is being held in Guantanamo Bay's Camp Delta.

I wonder what this guy's definition of bravery is. It's not bravery when you risk no retaliation.

[Conspiracy Guy]

Try agreeing with your opponent just one time. Conceding that they are correct is not what they prepared for. While they studder in response ask something like, "Do you think that we'll ever put a man on the moon again?"

[Conspiracy Guy]

You're right, we're barbarians, I guess it's in our blood.

[ChadsDad]

I'm going to agree with everybody, about everything, starting now. : ) I feel better already.

[MattAMiller]

The american prison on Guantanimo is unamerican -- it is counter to the constitution, it is counter to everything the US has stood for on the international stage in human rights.

It's a war.

[Conspiracy Guy]

It is only a tactical ploy, it buys you a little time while the confused spin. And it can be fun without spending any money.

[yoe]

All those living in near luxury at the Git-Mo Hilton are Military Combatants. Regardless of their nationalities, they were fighting for the terrorists. President Bush declared a War on Terrorism and our beautifully plainspoken President meant what he said. We made a huge mistake in bringing our own traitor home and giving him “his” rights when in fact he should have been hung for fighting against his country – which he had willfully left to join the enemy in all things Islam.

America is still under the weight of Political Correctness and the lily livered socialist congressmen/women who would rather see this country weak and indefensible than fight for our freedom and liberty. Welcome Infidels to the real world of Marxism!

[doodad]

They had POW camps for Germans here in Ga during WWII, but I doubt there was any legal recourse or constitutional standing for them. They are POWs! We just don't want them on out mainland it is against EPA regs.

[Cobra Scott]

You too? Hhaha! I thought I was the only one who figured that out!

[dvwjr]

You must be kidding.

They are not POWs, no uniforms. They are not civilians accused of a crime. They are non-state actor combatants, so they will be held until the war is over, or that US military officials make the determination that they are to be released.

It is not counter to the US Constitution, since the individuals in question are not US citizens, and were not taken prisoner on US soil. It is NOT a matter for the Justice Department of the US, it is a military matter under the perview of the President in his role as Commander-in-Chief.

What is so hard to understand about these facts?

Given Europe's silence during the murder of 13 million souls in WWII, and the slaughter of millions in Asia in the past 70 years, the tribal killings of millions in Africa; who exactly has such a high moral standing to be looking down their noses at the US? Anyone?

I didn't think so...

dvwjr

[Mister Baredog]

Try agreeing with your opponent just one time.

It's my #1 technique in my marriage, works every time!

[Guillermo]

Did every German we captured in WWII get a trial? This is a simple yes or no question.

[L,TOWM]

I smell varmint poont@ng...

Squishii Centrum Species, Terrorium Moralequivalentor Subspecies.

Hatched on 4/4/03...

Might want to get rid of it before it gets full grown.

[Psycho_Bunny]

I'd care only, I don't.

[Joe Brower]

"I'd care only, I don't."

That's nice. Why other even posting to this thread, then?

As I stated, I am engaged with a debate from everyday people from a number of countries around the world other than our own. The mass concensus of their opinion of America and Americans is incredibly distrustful, biased, misinformed, almost hateful. If that's OK with you, more power to you. But I personally refuse to see this endless litany of lies continue unchallenged and uncorrected.

You mileage may vary.

To everyone else here who took the time to respond constructively, I thank you.