Religion versus science might be all in the mind

The Sydney Morning Herald ^ | April 29 2003 | Chris McGillion

[maestro]

" In the Beginning,......Creator-Redeemer God,.....created all the 'potential' for the 'physical sciences'....."

:-)

[Lysander]

In the beginning, God created man.
Conversely, dancing around the sod,
Some say, "Man created god!"
Be careful or your words may do,
Something of the same to you!<BR

[Flightdeck]

This research fails to explain how somebody recently returned from a near-death experience was able to recite the serial number printed on the sticker on the top side of the ceiling fan blade. Be wary of anyone with an agenda, skeptic and soothsayer alike.

[mvpel]

These claims have been strengthened by the work of the Canadian neuropsychologist Dr Michael Persinger. By stimulating the cerebral region presumed to control notions of self, Persinger has been able to induce in hundreds of subjects a "sensed presence" only the subjects themselves are aware of.

I find this quite interesting based on my own personal experience. I've noticed that I'm far more aware of persons in my surroundings than my wife and other people, and I wonder if perhaps my brain structure has somehow connected my conscious and subconscious perceptions of nearby individuals to this "sense of self" cerebral region?

[1FreeAmerican]

"T'wer it not for God, man would have invented him". (I still don't know who said that.)

[angkor]

Inducing "otherworldly" sensations doesn't in any way prove there is no God. It merely proves that sensations of various kinds can be induced. Period.

It's a remarkable feat of arrogance (and, also, remarkably unscientific) to assert that these induced sensations encompass the entirety of religious belief and experience.

[sarasota]

A book titled God's Whisper Creation's Thunder by Brian Hines (a physicist) puts this matter into yet another perspective. An incredible read.

[ClancyJ]

Well, I know it is extremely hard for many to believe - but - who created the brain? God. Who is to say he would not create it with built in functions to enable us to more readily feel His presence, to communicate with Him and any other spiritual function.

Since the brain has the capabilities does not mean there is no God - it means that God is the creator and created the brain and man for His purposes.

I always think of a programmer and a computer program. The programmer is the creator and his creation automatically performs many functions. Yet, these functions would not work without the creator.

[walden]

"It's a remarkable feat of arrogance (and, also, remarkably unscientific) to assert that these induced sensations encompass the entirety of religious belief and experience. "

Yes-- extremely reductionist. The irony is that these kinds of researchers never seem to have a personal religious experience, that rich combination of experience, faith, reason, and knowledge that comprises mature "religious belief". It's like the difference between art critics and artists.

[MineralMan]

"This research fails to explain how somebody recently returned from a near-death experience was able to recite the serial number printed on the sticker on the top side of the ceiling fan blade. "

What's the corroboration for this incident? Where did you hear about it? What confirmation is there that it actually happened?

Sounds like an urban legend to me.

[gcruse]

This research fails to explain how somebody recently returned from a near-death experience was able to recite the serial number printed on the sticker on the top side of the ceiling fan blade.

I'd really like to see a cite for that.  One doctor I read about put a
signboard on top of the cabinets in a room where patients often
had NDEs.  During the patient's phenomenon of floating above
their bodies and the room, none was ever able to tell her what
was on the sign.

[gcruse]

"T'wer it not for God, man would have invented him". (I still don't know who said that.)

If no one had ever said that, I would have.  ;)

[MineralMan]

"I'd really like to see a cite for that. "

You won't see one, I'm afraid. I've seen dozens of these claims, but none that were ever backed up. If there is a cite, it will be from some web site, with nothing further to back it up.

Of course, there are always those gullible enough to believe any story, as long as it seems to support their personal beliefs.

[Sabatier]

Saying that religious experience is nothing more than brain chemistry is like saying that the Mona Lisa is nothing more the way oil paint refracts light or that opera is just vibrations hitting your inner ear. To the scientist that's all he can say to describe those experiences. It says nothing about the meaning or quality of the experience.

[gcruse]

Of course, there are always those gullible enough to believe any story, as long as it seems to support their personal beliefs.

As the article mentions, there is a lot of wishful thinking involved.

That said, Elizabeth Kubler-Ross & Dr. Moody (?)'s book Life After Life
is a really good read.  The are some instances that give you something to
think about.  Not that there is a God, but that there is more.

[gcruse]

Saying that religious experience is nothing more
 than brain chemistry is like saying that the Mona
 Lisa is nothing more the way oil paint refracts light

Okay.  Then religious experience is a certain kind
of brain chemistry.  Turn off the lights, and Mona
Lisa is no different from Dogs Playing Poker.

[Flightdeck]

I'll look for it and get back to you. It was in a book I have. And I don't consider myself gullible. Personal experience has led me to alter my skeptical beliefs which were due in part to a heavy science background.

[MineralMan]

"That said, Elizabeth Kubler-Ross & Dr. Moody (?)'s book Life After Life
is a really good read. The are some instances that give you something to
think about. Not that there is a God, but that there is more."

Perhaps. However, having personally been clinically dead at one time, I can tell you that I had no near-death experiences whatever. I recovered completely from my bout with encephalitis, and had no experiences from the time I stopped breating and had no pulse. None.

Others, perhaps, have had such experiences, but I did not.

As for gods and the like, I was an atheist then and I'm one still.

[LiteKeeper]

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