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To: Polycarp
The one part of this I don't get is that it DOES appear that a member of the Catholic clergy DID violate the confidential relationship he is supposed to have with (shudder) Daschle. I'm not Catholic, but if my LDS bishop did this--aired his opinion about one of my positions on something, so very publically--I'd have a HUGE problem with that. And I think my church would too.

On one level those of us who are pro-life need to be extremely aggressive with the pro-choice people and fight for the babies being slaughtered for the sake of convenience. It IS insane that anyone who promotes abortion, actively promotes it, could be Catholic. (I don't think there are any pro-abortion politicians who are LDS, but I could be wrong. I KNOW such a person could be excommunicated from our church. There'd be none of this "you can't call yourself a member"--he or she would NOT be a member, fast.)

However, I don't think any bishop or stake president in our church could or would go public condemning any particular member like this, or attempt this kind of...extortion. The excommunication would be as quiet and private as the church could make it, but there'd be no private letters made available on purpose to be read on the Senate floor.

This just seems like a sneaky and underhanded way to do this. Still, it couldn't have happened to a nicer guy. /sarcasm.

Is this something that sits well with Catholics? Maybe it's time to do stuff like this--call out the pro-abortionists, make them publically reconcile what they claim to believe. I'm just uncomfortable with a member of the clergy doing it. There's supposed to be a private relationship there.
7 posted on 04/25/2003 8:36:49 AM PDT by ChemistCat (My new bumper sticker: MY OTHER DRIVER IS A ROCKET SCIENTIST)
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To: ChemistCat; sinkspur
I don't think any bishop or stake president in our church could or would go public condemning any particular member like this

Disclaimer: this is my opinion only, and I have no way of verifying this:

Most Catholic bishops have a bureacracy they use when "writing" a letter such as this, i.e., a canon law expert (usually a priest but sometimes a layperson), a personal secretary (sometimes a priest, sometimes a layperson), advisers, etc. The bishop tells them what he "wants to say" and they draw up the draft letter, and he signs it.

I feel certain it was one of these ancillary personel that "leaked" this letter, NOT the bishop himself. Either way, I think we would all agree that spiritually it was imprudent, but on the whole it has given pro-life Catholics something for which to be thankful.

Sinkspur,

Any comments from an "insider"?

9 posted on 04/25/2003 8:49:43 AM PDT by Polycarp ("He who denies the existence of God, has some reason for wishing that God did not exist.")
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To: ChemistCat
The one part of this I don't get is that it DOES appear that a member of the Catholic clergy DID violate the confidential relationship he is supposed to have with (shudder) Daschle. I'm not Catholic, but if my LDS bishop did this--aired his opinion about one of my positions on something, so very publically--I'd have a HUGE problem with that. And I think my church would too.
Well, how do you address it when the problem is that Daschle is publically claiming to be Catholic as part of his campaign pitch. If he refuses to stop, and refuse to stop endorsing abortion, you are forced to make your disagreement public.

In Catholic theology, Daschle’s actions give what is called scandal. It makes it look like the Church doesn’t mean it when they say they are pro-life, if they allow a notorious pro abort to claim he is a good Catholic to get votes. The faithful are scandalized by that, and are often confused about just what the Church really teaches.

To address that, you have to do it in the public sphere. Daschle’s sin isn’t just a personal act, it is deeply and inextricably intertwined with his public acts of governance and electioneering. The only way to cure that harm, is to do so publicly, as a last resort. Given the length of the dialog it is fair to call this a last resort.

However, I don't think any bishop or stake president in our church could or would go public condemning any particular member like this, or attempt this kind of...extortion.
What would happen if, after the excommunication, the man kept claiming to be LDS in good standing, even if he didn’t participate because he was excommunicated? Would they just let those claims stand uncontested?
I'm just uncomfortable with a member of the clergy doing it. There's supposed to be a private relationship there.
There is, but one of the explicit purposes for excommunication in the Church has always been to cure public scandal, and to protect the faithful from a wolf in sheep’s clothing.

patent  +AMDG

10 posted on 04/25/2003 8:51:31 AM PDT by patent (A baby is God's opinion that life should go on. Carl Sandburg)
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To: ChemistCat
Please note that both the Bishop and the Senator issued non-denial denials. The letter was SUPPOSED to be private, but was leaked.
14 posted on 04/25/2003 9:33:37 AM PDT by ninenot
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