From homosexuality to incest?

TownHall.com ^ | Thursday, April 24, 2003 | by Marvin Olasky

[Publius6961]

EXACTLY! Now how will we prevent women from demanding the right to vote, or black people from riding in the front of the bus??

Great logic!
Being black is the exact equivalent to being a pervert.

Right.

[Qwerty]

"Being black is the exact equivalent to being a pervert."

Well to me it is (if you substitute "homosexual" for the pervert part), since I believe I was born homosexual.

[Publius6961]

All depends on your definition of "supposedly"...

[Publius6961]

Well to me it is (if you substitute "homosexual" for the pervert part), since I believe I was born homosexual.

Congratulations!
I think you have just invented the "Hannibal Lecter" defense.

"...since I believe..." has such a final, elegant simplicity.

[FairWitness]

But there are no actual "If you're caught committing adultery, you are fined or jailed" laws, right?

Without researching it, my guess would be that there are, or at least used to be, laws including penalties for such behaviour, but over time some or most of these laws have been repealed by legislation not by court fiat.

[Mr. Thorne]

It seems to keep changing. The rule, that is.

For the past decade, every time someone investigated a sociological or biological cause for homosexuality came out, they were lambasted by the gay rights crowd.

First it was the homosexual gene, maybe we can prevent the condition. No! Shouts the activist, this is WHAT I AM, it's not WRONG, I like being this way.

Then it was environment. Maybe if you pay more attention to how you raise your kids, they won't end up gay. Maybe with counselling, those who are living the gay lifestyle could change their ways... No! Shouts the activist, IT'S GENETIC, it's NOT MY FAULT, do you think I'd choose this lifestyle (even though it's perfectly natural and there's nothing wrong with it, etc.).

So, back to your question, we may never know! Because the lifestyle itself, whether nature or nurture, has become sacrosanct. You may not speak against it in any way, or hold that it is, in any way, less than a desirable lifestyle.

Go figure.

[Qwerty]

""...since I believe..." has such a final, elegant simplicity."

Well since there is no conclusive root or cause, I'm going to have to stick with personal opinion.

Would you rather I tried to pass it off as fact?

[Qwerty]

They may have been removed by legislation, but if the SC had found them unconstitutional (had someone actually been arrested and taken it to court) they may have been ruled unconstitutional and thrown out. That isn't fiat, that's the way it's supposed to work.

[JoshGray]

He's got something close to a point: it's happened before.

Georgia's sodomy law was challenged in 1986 under Bowers v. Hardwick -- the USSC upheld it as it applied to homosexuals, without comment in regards to heterosexuals.

It was tossed in 1998 by the Georgia SC in Powell v. State -- after having been applied to heterosexual incest with an underage girl.

Kinda ironic, huh?

[LanPB01]

As opposed to your totally unsupported belief that they choose to follow that lifestyle. Right.

[FairWitness]

When a court of nine members has to search "penumbras and emanations" to find support for overturning laws passed by democratically elected state legislatures, that is "fiat".

[biblewonk]

Hetero incest is not near as gross as homosexuality. It occurs in the bible quite a few times and is in Christ's lineage. That and even prostitutes get a few almost honorable mentions in the bible but sodomy never does, no not once.

[John Valentine]

What are the laws against adultery and what are are the punishments?

Who knows" There are 50 states and hundreds of sub-jurisdictions that might have laws on the books. There isn't just a single situation. Things thaty are perfectly legal one place may be illegal somewhere else.

[John Valentine]

I'm not very familiar with this case, but you'd think it'd be unconstitutional since fellatio is legal for women but illegal for men.

Say, what?

I don't think you can make such a blanket statement. It depends on how an individual law is crafted in a specfic jurisdiction. It may be that you could mount an "equal protections' challenge to a spicific law that applied only to men, but to say that any oral sex ban would fail on this account shows a remarkable lack of imagination.

In fact to write a law that makes fellatio illegal for men and legal for women would take a bit of creative writing in the first place.

What jurisdiction do you believe has such a law?

[Qwerty]

"It depends on how an individual law is crafted in a specfic jurisdiction. It may be that you could mount an "equal protections' challenge to a spicific law that applied only to men, but to say that any oral sex ban would fail on this account shows a remarkable lack of imagination."

Well not really. Sodomy is only illegal if it is homosexual. Therefore, you've crafted a law that says women can perform fellatio, but not men. Men can perform cunnilingus, but not women. I think you have an equal protection issue there.

[Anitius Severinus Boethius]

But there are no actual "If you're caught committing adultery, you are fined or jailed" laws, right?

This is a good place to start. Start reading on the last paragraph on page 19 of this Supreme Court decision. You will see that as of 1996 the District of Columbia and 25 states had laws against adultery. Not just listing adultery as a charge of divorce, but actual statutes against the act itself.

http://supreme.lp.findlaw.com/supreme_court/briefs/02-102/02-102.mer.resp.pdf

[John Valentine]

Do the cops go breaking down doors to arrest those adulterers?

With a question like this one, you screen name is most appropriate. Whatever enfocement action is used by the police is not relevant to the illegality or illegality of the proscribed behavior. But to answer your question, a violent act (breaking down a door) would seldom if ever be justified to effectuate an arrest for a non-violent crime (adultery).

[Qwerty]

"When a court of nine members has to search "penumbras and emanations" to find support for overturning laws passed by democratically elected state legislatures, that is "fiat". "

Well, I'd rather they researched and thought about it. That's what they do.

[John Valentine]

Well not really. Sodomy is only illegal if it is homosexual.

where do you come up with this stuff? Maybe that is true in some jurisdiction, but it is by no means universally true, nor does it have to be.. It can be made quite illegal for a female to perform fellatio OR cunnilingus. Why not. I could draft the law myself, it's quite simple.

[Qwerty]

"You will see that as of 1996 the District of Columbia and 25 states had laws against adultery. Not just listing adultery as a charge of divorce, but actual statutes against the act itself."

Interesting. I wonder if anyone has ever been charged. You couldn't challenge it until it was.

Personally, I don't like the idea of police arresting people who cheated on their spouses.