Show of Shia power unsettles the allies

The Times (U.K.) ^ | 04/23/03 | Richard Beeston

[xJones]

If it scares the allies, it must scare the fire out of the Sunni Iraqis.

[risk]

Now we get to find out what happens when Saddam's secular government isn't in force.

I think this will be the first real test of our experiment in Iraq. Separation of church and state will have to be enforced or else we are begging for trouble now, and in the future.

[billorites]

Lovely people.

[The Vast Right Wing]

Perhaps some of these guys need to take a vacation.

[vbmoneyspender]

I often wonder how some of these reporters are able to muster the courage to step out of their houses in order to get to work.

[DannyTN]

"Separation of church and state will have to be enforced or else we are begging for trouble now, and in the future. "

With the Shiites in the majority, I think we are going to have trouble structuring the government in such a way so as to protect the rights of the minorities. Could be wrong, but it really depends on how many shiites are willing to stand up for those rights.

One thing that will help is the way they are dividing the country under a federal system. I suspect though that if you think the Federal system get's abused in our country, that Iraq is going to teach our politicians us some new tricks.

[Born to Conserve]

Oh, for a second I thought someone said that there was a sars outbreak at these pilgrimages. It would sure spread like wildfire.

[anniegetyourgun]

"They have also told American and British forces that they will not tolerate any prolonged occupation of Iraq. “In the begining, our opposition to foreign occupation will be expressed by peaceful means,” Sheikh Qaazem al- Nasari, a leading Shia, said. “If, after a certain point, non- violence produces no result, we will then have to decide what to do.”

Takes brass or nuts to say such a thing in light of our overwhelming force just displayed in their backyard. Rise up against coalition forces, and they may learn the meaning of 'shock and awe' in personal terms.

[StolarStorm]

Iranian agents are likely behind much of the agitation. We better move fast to put a stop to them or this will get out of control.

[risk]

One thing that will help is the way they are dividing the country under a federal system.

Good idea. I'm sure Garner is going to have plenty of political advice about such matters, but it wouldn't hurt to see if you could get involved.

I've been speculating that Iraq would become a sort of laboratory for American political experimentation. I think it's exciting, but unless we have the will to protect our investment and civil rights, we could see some frightening futures unfolding.

[SwinneySwitch]

Ari added: “Iran certainly is not an example of democracy or a country in which people are free."

Give 'em hell, Ari!

[risk]

Iranian agents are likely behind much of the agitation.

Absolutely -- I see this as being a 99% liklihood. Much the way we are dabbling in political experimentation in Iraq (and for the betterment of everyone involved I might add) Iranian zealots are probably doing so. They as much as said they would, and we've caught several of them already, as far as I recall.

[Wild Irish Rogue]

" Rise up against coalition forces, and they may learn the meaning of 'shock and awe' in personal terms."

Last night,on O'Reilly, Col Hunt said we are "going to have to whack some of these guys",before they get out of control. Lt Col Cowan said something similar,but,in a more PC way.Either way,it appears there is more house cleaning to be done in Iraq.

[Russell Scott]

"The enemies of Christ will collapse like a deflated ballon." I see very rough times ahead for all Islamic fanatics.

[grania]

“There is real concern,” a senior British official said. “The Iraqi Shia are the only group to have made any real impact so far. There was a feeling that the Shia were more secular than those in Iran. Now we are not so sure.”

oops

[Wright is right!]

And I got flamed mercilessly back on April 10 when I suggested that all the neatly and professionally-printed signs and banners are the protests came from Iran. There they were in a city with no electricity carrying all these perfectly-produced posters and banners.

Of COURSE this trouble is coming from Iran. They're in big trouble back home and the LAST thing they need next door is a country with freedom.

Michael

[montag813]

I think this will be the first real test of our experiment in Iraq. Separation of church and state will have to be enforced or else we are begging for trouble now, and in the future.

This can only be accomplished if WE impose a constitution like we did in Japan and Germany. But that wont happen with this pussy "we're not occupiers...please don't hate us" mentality. Ideally the Iraqis should have their rights, but OUR security and economic interests come first. We must establish a stong base in Basra and insist on pro-American governments from now on. It is naive to adopt the neocons blind belief that we're ging to see a Jeffersonian democracy any day now. Arabs respect only the use of power. We must protect our interests first and foremost.

[Goodman26]

It felt great for us to go over there and kick their a--ses and round up the the bad guys, etc. And it is constructive to show the world that we can go anywhere and crush anyone, if they go too far and really tick us off. So on the whole, to this point, the attack on Iraq was positive and well worth it.

But it was and is niave in the extreme for the Bushies to think that we could bring democracy to the country or establish some sort of model for the rest of the Middle East.

Bush should start pulling out now, before it gets worse, and say, "Hey, our job is done; we never intended to try our hand at "nation building" (in fact I campaigned against it.)

[alloysteel]

Suppose we allow the Shi'a to proceed with forming an independent country, which would be an ally of Iran. Would this strengthen the theocracy in Iran, or serve to continue the foundering there? Right now, Iran is tottering on the brink of uncertainty, and may very well have to adopt a more secular government to regain stability. But a neighbor that has adopted a similar form of religious governance, just may be the bracing support the ayatollahs of Iran need to continue their own autocratic rule.