Posted on 04/21/2003 1:33:09 AM PDT by kattracks
At Yale they taught Li'l Abner Geography???
Indeed do you think that even Hitler (11 million killed) was in the same league with Mao (75 million killed)? If so, and if those are examples of your credentials to engage in discussions of foreign policy and what the pope ought or ought not to be doing, assuming as I do not that you have a clue as to what he is doing, which you do not, why would anyone particularly care what you think?
Somewhere previously you expressed doubt that anything you post would change my mind. On the one hand: The Roman Catholic Church and Pope John Paul II. OTOH: The unknown poster who is scribbling graffiti on the Vatican wall. No brainer! You are at least right that you aren't going to change my mind.
BTW, Al Capp was a friend of mine. He came originally from New Haven. I used to drive him around from Boston to New York from time to time and I enjoyed his hospitality and common sense.
Great rebuttal, BTW!
You're tagging the wrong Catholic.
I have been a traditional Catholic since the Vatican II Council and am unhappy with the way the current pope has squandered his papacy.
What II did was to throw out the baby with the bathwater and relegate the Roman Catholic Church into the same abyss we find the rest of the disjointed Christian churches. Rome should have led instead of capitulating.
Insofar as the American Catholic Church is concerned, there have been feeble attempts by Rome to roll back, or suggest, that some of the changes made in America should be negated. None were.
The bishops thumbed their nose at Rome and ran off in the direction of polka masses, balloon masses, clown masses, altar girls, dipping the host in the communion wine etc.
Surely, any Catholic worth his salt would see that the church has declined and needs to be resurrected!
Where was the Pope and the international community when they really needed them? It's so easy for theses armchair quarterbacks to be telling us what we need to be doing... after we've ridded the world and the Iraqi people of Hussein.
Which includes about 99.9999999% of the neo-Christians on this thread.
Personally this war rings a bit hollow to me. Our track record doesn't indicate that we've been too concerned about the murder of innocents around the world.
And you were right about this country not listening to the Pope about the war. We also did not listen to him regarding abortion. 40 million plus innocents have been legally killed in this country, with the blessing of the government.
I'm no fan of the UN either. I don't believe the Vatican has a permanent seat on the UN, but I think the US does. That's another thing I don't understand, why do we play the UN game sometimes, and sometimes not? I think we should either get in or get out. I think get out is the best thing.
This is an ugly little thread isn't it? I see alot of the usual suspects are here too.
Lorraine Boettner LOL...snort.
I don't disagree with anything you said. My ONLY comment was that those anti-war folks who used as their reasoning that so many "innocents" would be killed or hurt weren't taking into account the hundreds of thousands who had ALREADY been killed or hurt.
If you're right and the Pope's comments were taken out of context, perhaps he doesn't belong in that category. But I stand by my comment that all those who used the innocent casualties argument to justify their anti-war positions were misguided at best and disingenuous at worst -- whether it be the Pope, or a Tibetan Monk, or a Hollyweird Celebrity. And my comment could apply to anyone -- it just so happened this thread was about the Pope.
I have no anti-Pope tendencies or beliefs, in spite of what others are trying to imply. I purposefully stay out of religious-based arguments because I'm not educated enough about most of them to carry on a debate and religion inspires so much passion from folks that you'd best be ready to rumble when you enter the religious arena.
It just riles me when ANYONE is REPORTED to claim that this war is/was immoral, illegal, or unjust.
I would add a "tiny" disclaimer to your comment about "innocents around the world." While I agree with the gist of your comment, I sincerely believe GW was and is concerned about the Iraqi innocents. He's spoken about this both before and during the war. But, in general, you're probably right.
It's especially frustrating when the Pope's comments have been taken way out of context by the media who would love nothing better than to further damage the Church.
I'm sure President Bush is very concerned about the innocent victims of this war, he seems to me to be a decent, sincere man.
It's just my opinion but I think we should have had UN backing before we went in. Though I'm also of the opinion that alot of Nations in the UN have their own little agendas and are not playing above board.
I don't believe Nations like Russia or China will ever be our ally, maybe it's all smiles at UN meetings but behind the scenes I think it's all cloak and dagger and we should get out.
My 2 cents.
We would have never gone in. Saddam would have continued to play rope-a-dope until the Euroweenies at the UN gave in, relaxed sanctions, and allowed him and his foul offspring to play in his private torture chamber and WMD lab until long after this particular Pope had passed on.
We gave the UN an opportunity to show what it is made of. It proved it was made of day-old mush.
Ssshhh. This will really get you bombarded. LOL.
This is where we disagree. When France says they're going to veto ANY resolution that authorizes force and when Libya and Iraq and Syria are allowed to head committees dealing with human rights and disarmament and the like then, in my book, the UN has no moral standing to bless anything.
This UN madness had nothing to do with Iraq . . . it was all just weenie-wagging contests between those who talk the talk like 800# gorillas yet walk the walk like the last kid picked in dodgeball -- which is what France is on the world stage -- and the world's ONLY REAL 800# gorilla -- the U.S. France is in a steep and steady decline and the only noise they can make that'll be heard by anyone other than themselves is their whining on the UN stage.
Why would you want the backing of a socialist, anti-American organization?
It's a mess. I don't see how we are now in a much better position than before we went into Iraq. Iraq seems to be doing better, for the moment, but I believe the rest of the world has a dimmer outlook on us. I certainly don't think that terrorist attacks against us are going to stop because we ousted Saddam.
President Bush said it may take 20 years to rid the world of terrorism. He will probably only be in office 6 more max. Who knows what the next President will do. I mean, we had 8 years of Slick Willie.
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