Will democracy fly?: It is not our business to impose a system of government in Iraq

OcRegister.com ^ | 4/20/03 | STEVEN GREENHUT

[Hoppean]

But she goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy." Adams made a philosophical argument, emphasizing that "America's glory is not dominion, but liberty," but he made a practical argument as well.

"She well knows that by once enlisting under other banners than her own were they even the banners of foreign independence, she would involve herself beyond the power of extrication, in all the wars of interest and intrigue, of individual avarice, envy and ambition, which assume the colors and usurp the standard of freedom. The fundamental maxims of her policy would insensibly change from liberty to force ..."

[11B3]

Utter horse$hit. Yeah, Iraqis would've - no should've in your opinion, been left to deal with Saddam's regime on their own? 24 years of that resulted in how many of them being executed, tortured, and raped?

Go and read my post from earlier tonight - For the Children. It is directed at you and those who think as you do.

[DB]

We didn't have to go "abroad" to find the monsters. The monsters came to us. We are now chasing them down abroad.

As far as "Its is not our business...". We spent our blood on taking out one monster. That makes it our business to follow through and try to make sure that blood has some long term value. We forced democracy on Japan and others after winning that war. It was clearly in our interest to do so.

[nopardons]

This isn't the early 19th century, we aren't taking over Iraq for the long haul, and the author of this assinine tripe is worse than foolish. Isolationists should all go off somewhere and see how long they can remain out of the march of history's way in this century. LOL

[Publius6961]

Another bunch of words chasing a moronic premise.

Any form of government should be left alone provided that:
It does not reward criminal behavior in another government.
It does not create equip maintain and finance a surrogate army of terrorists to wage surrogate war.

If Canada did those things against my country I would feel justified in attacking them tomorrow.

I always get confused... it that a red herring or a straw man?

[Eva]

I heard an Iraqi woman say that the leftists who claim that the people of Iraq cannot handle democracy are simply racists.

[CaptainJustice]

When will people like this realize WE ARE NOT TAKING OVER IRAQ?! We are freeing it for the Iraqis to take over. This is not, nor has it ever been, a war of congress. Anyone too stupid not to see that has no credibility with me.

[goldstategop]

WE're not imperialists and we're not dictating a government to the Iraqi people. We're simply establishing transitional arrangements to allow them to choose their own government at the earliest possible opportunity. If we wanted to run Iraq as an American colony, we could but we are deliberately refraining from doing so. John Adams would marvel at our forebearance. We destroyed a danger to the United States and the only example we offer is liberty. Let the Iraq people decide their own future.

[TrebleRebel]

The writer gives it a nice try, but fails in many respects.

First, he forgot the life and times of JQA. A vulnerable nation, with a form of government still in its infancy, can ill-afford to "go abroad in search of monsters to destroy." In 1821, were Americans still heady from victory 50 years previous, ready to go out and 'kick butt and take names in the name of liberty?' Maybe, and maybe he was telling them to cool it. But today, when they not only rattle their sabers at us, but fly planes into civilian targets, and aim chemical and biological weapons at us, if we have the means then we have the responsibility to bring them down.

Second, admirable that Havel and so many dissidents toppled a regime in Czechoslovakia. And 20,000 names on a petition in Cuba -- wow. And how many years did it take the citizens of these countries to get to this point? At this rate, how long will it take for inner topplings of regimes in countries of their ilk to take place?

The troops did nothing to stop the looting? Wow, I guess I was dreaming the footage I saw of soldiers desperately screaming at looters, to no avail, because the looters didn't understand English, or pretended they didn't, and the soldiers could not fire at them.

Too many apples and oranges being compared here. But like I said, he gives it a good try.

[snopercod]

The press has a real opportunity here to educate the world on why America has been so successful as a country, and why theocracies and socialist countries always fail.

Do you suppose we will hear any of that on the evening news?

[goldstategop]

The socialists in Congress want to try a failed experiment here. Some people can never get their heads around the existence of a stubborn thing called reality.

[TrebleRebel]

I doubt it, because the press and the media is too consumed with patronizing self-loathing to ever concede that the US is indeed a successful nation.

[Hoppean]

Go and read my post from earlier tonight - For the Children. It is directed at you and those who think as you do.

I looked at your post, and saw the pics of the Iraqi children waving American flags, etc. What's the title of the next article in this series, "It Takes a Village?"

If you're going to justify the war on Iraq, at least do so in the name of America--tell me that it protects this country from WMD that Saddam plotted to give to terrorists--I am much more sympathetic to that reason than if you tell me we did it for charity for the Iraqis.

To tell the truth, I don't care about the Iraqi children because they're not Americans and they're not my responsibility. I don't think the Iraqis or any other denizens of other countries are worth a drop of American blood. And just to be evenhanded, we shouldn't have ever helped the French, either, as a lot of FReepers have recently come to see what they're all about. If everybody is your brother, then you have no brother.

As far as spending tax dollars, I don't even buy the argument at home in America that the liberals make that government welfare programs are "for the children." Let the parents pay for them themselves. How many socialist policies have been put in place in this country under the slogan, "it's for the children?"

[Captain Kirk]

Yeah right. Why have we not even allowed the Iraqis to establish an interim coalitoin government? They have tried to do it for months. We wouldn't want our little brown brothers to actually have their own government, especially if we haven't "approved" it would we? After all, they're not "ready" yet.

[sinkspur]

We wouldn't want our little brown brothers to actually have their own government, especially if we haven't "approved" it would we? After all, they're not "ready" yet.

If they're going to start killing each other, or establish an Islamist state to wage jihad on the west, then, no, they're not ready yet.

[dirtboy]

If you're going to justify the war on Iraq, at least do so in the name of America--tell me that it protects this country from WMD that Saddam plotted to give to terrorists--I am much more sympathetic to that reason than if you tell me we did it for charity for the Iraqis.

In case you haven't bothered to figure this out, interventions in the affairs of other countries to promote your own self interests go much better if you are also aiding the self interests of that country's citizens. So our need to eliminate Saddam's ability to provide funding and weapons to terrorist groups dovetails nicely with ending repression in that country. It isn't an either/or situation.

[dirtboy]

Why have we not even allowed the Iraqis to establish an interim coalitoin government? They have tried to do it for months.

Another whine to add to the pile of non-serious statments accumulating under the chins of the critics. "YOU HAVEN'T FOUND WMDS! YOU ALLOWED LOOOTING! WHY ISN'T A GOVERNMENT FORMED YET!" "ARE WE THERE YET? ARE WE THERE YET?"

It's absolutely amazing that the folks uttering this stuff believe that any thinking person is impressed by it.

[Captain Kirk]

Brilliant response dirtboy. Do you have a rational argument or do you just like to rant?

[Captain Kirk]

Thank you sinkspur! You admit that they are second class citizens and that we really don't want to give them self-government. If only most of the Wilsonian freepers on this thread were as honest as you are. I appreciate your brutal honesty.

[dirtboy]

Brilliant response dirtboy. Do you have a rational argument or do you just like to rant?

That's pretty funny, coming from someone who is whining about the fact that there isn't an interim government set up yet, even though hostilities have been over for less than two weeks. I guess you're impressed with yourself, but that's about as far as it goes...