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ASTM366 wrote: With all the "experience" that the BATF had in the field on February 28, 1993 why did things go so badly? Can you really defend the actions of the BATF on that day with a straight face? They went wrong because…

1. the BATF brass decided to mount a demonstration raid to convince the Clinton administration they should not be merged with the FBI, and…

2. the Davidians were tipped off that the raid was coming so they set an ambush and opened fire on the agents.

The agents were firing in self-defense; it was the Davidians who placed the innocents in danger by virtue of their armed resistance.

Now I agree that the raid was a bad idea.

It makes no sense to raid an armed-to-the-teeth anti-government doomsday cult because all that does is confirm their crankery in their own minds.

But the field agents on the scene aren't the villains of the piece; that role is reserved for the Davidian loons.

2. the Davidians were tipped off that the raid was coming so they set an ambush and opened fire on the agents.

The agents were firing in self-defense; it was the Davidians who placed the innocents in danger by virtue of their armed resistance.

Now I agree that the raid was a bad idea.

It makes no sense to raid an armed-to-the-teeth anti-government doomsday cult because all that does is confirm their crankery in their own minds.

But the field agents on the scene aren't the villains of the piece; that role is reserved for the Davidian loons.

The BATF knew befor the raid began that the Davidians had been warned. So who ever was in charge was criminally negligent in his duty to the point of injury to citizen and his agents.

I respect your defense of the law enforcement personnel involved at Mt. Carmel, but get the impression that you do not respect the "rights" of the Branch Davidians to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, due process and limits on central authorities.

The agents were firing in self-defense; it was the Davidians who placed the innocents in danger by virtue of their armed resistance.

Absent a no-knock warrant, which was not issued, law enforcement personnel are required to make at least a token effort to show a warrant to the occupant of a dwelling before entry. To be sure, the token effort is sometimes pretty minimal (e.g. kicking open a door half a second after knocking) but it is nonetheless required.

The BATF made no effort whatsoever to serve the warrant in the legally required fashion. As such, they had no authority to enter the Davidians' home. Given that their plan entailed the preemtive use of deadly force (concussion grenades), it is likely the BATF agents gave the Davidians every legal reason to shoot them. As it is, I'm not convinced the agents weren't killed by friendly fire (given the complete lack of fire discipline on the part of BATF agents), but even if the agents were shot by the Davidians it was entirely their fault for failing to make any effort enter the building in lawful fashion.