Posted on 04/19/2003 2:05:26 PM PDT by ASTM366
As I do each year, I post information to commemorate the attack by FBI agents in military vehicles on the Branch Davidians compound near Waco, Texas on April 19, 1993.
The Branch Davidians, a reclusive group of Christian believers, had been attacked 51 days earlier by over 100 heavily armed BATF agents, surrounded and subjected to psychological warfare techniques by government agents. On April 19th the feds sent in military vehicles to fill the building at the Branch Davidian compound with chemical agents to flush out the remaining occupants. What resulted was a fire that burned to death nearly all the occupants; INNOCENT men, women, children and infants. Some committed suicide by self inflicted gunshot.
To this day the federal government has never accepted responsibility for the events of 1993, nor have they apologized for their ugly and glaring display of unchecked power.
In a tragic and spectacular act of revenge, Timothy McVeigh and his associates carbombed the offices of the BATF and FBI in Oklahoma City on April 19, 1995.
We all know now that this was impossible. The feds took the "no knock warrant" approach.
Bill and Hill are proud of you Kevin. And so is Janet Reno.
I'm not defending Koresh, I just want to know the answer to my question...I asked four people on this thread...and I still don't have an answer.
The raid took place because of illegal weapons not child molesting, murder, etc.
What religious folks? Certainly not the Koresh/Devil worshippers of Mt. Carmel. Religious people are more than willing to submit to lawful political and civic authority, and are more than concerned about the welfare and lives of their own children than the Davidians exhibited.
Your time is gonna come Kevin.
And oh, how I am going to laugh...
There's blood on your hands. Lots and lots of blood.
Paybacks gonna be a real bitch.
Sleep well,
L
Enquiring minds want to know....
Sleep well.
L
Enquiring minds want to know....
Sleep well.
L
There were 140 men, women, and children inside that compound when the raid and siege on the Mount Carmel Branch Davidians began on February 28, 1993, near Waco, Texas.
Why was a small child outside when the firing began?
Why are we shown the ATF agents carrying a small body to an ambulance?
It is believed that 308-caliber machine guns may have been in the three helicopters, circling overhead during the raid.
Why were there several reports from those inside the compound that bullets came down through the roof into the compound?
When Dick DeGuerin, Koresh’s attorney, entered the compound, he saw bullet holes in the ceiling, and was told that one of them killed a mother while she was nursing her baby.
Jack Harwell, the county sheriff in Waco, had repeatedly said earlier, “There’s no evidence of child abuse out there.”
Janet Reno later said, “We had concerns for the children,” and that the attacks were made to protect the children. Why then was a man from the Dakotas, who had brought cans of baby food for the beseiged children, handcuffed and taken away—without delivery of the food to those children?
Later, during the day of the fire, agents were seen getting in and out of the tanks. A tank stopped above the underground bunker, closing off any means of escape from it. It was later learned that pieces of concrete fell upon the children inside.
Why was a masonite-exterior, wood frame building called “a fortress-like compound” in the later official Treasury Department Report?
Why did the warrant for the raid state that the objective was to attack a church in the United States? The warrant read: “Seventh-day Adventist Davidian church.”
Why was the raid carried out anyway, after the “element of surprise” was lost?
Why did the ATF contact television stations ahead of time?
Why was NBC able to so quickly televise an enacted version of the raid only a few days later? If it had been prepared after the raid, why was it so totally inaccurate to the video facts of what happened during the raid—even showing an agent dropping dead from a head wound before the front door? No agents died, or were even wounded, anywhere near that area.
Why were military advisors planning the raid on U.S. citizens, and advised the agents during the siege and final fire-setting of the building?
Why was information from a U.S. Army psychological brainwashing training and operations manual (Psyop) used in an attempt to mentally and emotionally gain control of those imprisoned citizens?
The official Treasury Department Report later said that the ATF knew in advance that the Waco newspaper report on Koresh (by the Tribune Herald) would begin releasing the series on Saturday, February 27, and that was the reason it moved the raid up from Monday March 1, to Sunday morning, February 28.
If the ATF was planning the raid for Monday, March 1, why was the country sheriff’s warrant for the raid (which was signed on February 25) officially listed as expiring on the 28th?
An additional feature: The warrant was not activated (presented to the sheriff’s office) until Monday, the 1st—the day after the raid occurred.
“They came right in, parked by the front door and made a frontal assault on the building.”—Waco reporter, John McLemore, eyewitness, who observed the action from across the road on February 28, 1993.
The Associated Press report said 100 agents arrived in livestock trailers, jumped out, and stormed the main home. Many women and children were inside, and that fact was known in advance.
There was no mention of any barrage of gunfire coming from the compound in any of those early reports.
As soon as the raiders arrived, Koresh stepped outside and asked them to stop, because there were women and children inside. He was answered with gunfire, fell back into the house and was wounded.
Immediately afterward, a call was placed to 911, and the phone was handed to Koresh. He said there were 75 men around the building, “and they’re shooting at us! There’s women and children in here; tell them to call it off!”
Throughout the lengthy, official Treasury Report, there was never any mention of a plan to knock at the door or announce their presence.
“The agency planned the entire raid, using dynamic entry techniques.”—Treasury Report. This is a synonym for a commando attack.
“They started firing at me, and I fell back at the door.”—Koresh.
The ATF later reported that such a powerful hail of bullets came outward through that front door, that it bowed outward. But careful examination of that door (taken by video later on that same day), showed the door not bowed outward, but still ajar. In addition, bullets coming out would have caused deep splinters on the outer wood. Yet this was not seen on the door or the walls. All the holes were neat and round.
There was no evidence in any of the videos of any Branch Davidians firing outward at any window, as claimed in the report.
Videos of the agents, firing from behind the cars, showed no bullets hitting the agents, the cars, or the ground.
Several agents then began climbing onto the front (eastern) roof. As they prepared to ascend the ladders, one was heard to yell to agents behind him who were firing: “Too much live fire!” telling them to stop shooting. The shooting came from behind, not from in front.
Agents were shown carrying MP-5 submachine guns. Why were these being used on American citizens?
No one was shooting at the agents as they climbed the ladder.
Just as the raid began, three helicopters had approached the compound.
Ascending up two ladders, the agents went onto the roof. Whenever a helicopter flew over the building, there was a cut in the released video of the roof scenes. Yet it was officially reported that there were no guns on the helicopters.
One agent tossed in a smoke bomb, and then entered the upstairs room. The third agent fired into the room, and then shots hit the wall. These were neat holes coming from outside, not inside.
The sounds on the video do not correspond to what is seen. There were 15 shots from 6 separate guns, including 4 (number 2, 8, 9 and 10) from overhead. Yet the dubbed-in sounds were all alike.
A computer analysis of the angle of the bullets from overhead reveals the c. 50-degree angle they were fired downward from above.
A few days later, the government released to a Dallas newspaper data that 4 agents were killed on the day of the raid, and it was specifically stated that the three who entered that room died. All names of the deceased were given.
But Keith Constantino, one of the three agents who went into that room, later reported that he was one of the three agents who entered it, and that he had gotten out alive. He said that, yes, other agents were killed but he did not know where.
After Waco: the Big Lie video was released in June 1993, the ATF said that none of the men who went in that window were killed! Instead, they said that two groups of agents climbed up two different roofs to different upstairs windows—four agents to the west window, and three agents to the east window (the window shown in the video), and that Constantino was on the three-man team which climbed up to the west window.
Three of the four men who were killed had earlier been part of President Clinton’s bodyguard. Clinton, himself, so stated this on March 18, 1993.
Those three men (Williams, Willis, and LeBleu) were all treated by private physicians, and not at any hospital.
Later, official autopsy data revealed that all three were struck by the fatal blow of a bullet which entered the left temple, and exited through the rear of the head. Parts of an AK 7.62 round was found in the head of one of the men. These are the caliber of guns fired by helicopter gunship machine guns.
Many of the people inside were either in the upstairs rooms (where bullets, directed downward, struck some of them) while others had gathered in the chapel to pray. An agent was shown, on video, tossing two granades into the chapel window and firing into the room.
Many ATF agents that day had shrapnel wounds.
Koresh’s phone had been tapped, yet no warrant had ever been issued to do that. This was an 18 USC 25-10 violation of the U.S. Code.
Mike Shroader was heading to town to go to work that morning, when he saw the raiders coming. He turned around, parked, and tried to re-enter the compound (his wife and small child were inside). The agents said he could proceed to the house. As he did so, he was shot seven times in the back. His body lay there five days, and then was picked up with a grappling hook by a helicopter and carried off.
In the later official report, the ATF was criticized for not doing—that which it appears they did do (example: it was said the helicopters should have carried guns. It has been suggested that, by criticizing those points, the way would be open for these things to be more easily done publicly on U.S. citizens again later.
On the day of the raid, a reporter was beaten by the ATF agents. Why were they so afraid of publicity that day?
When Linda Thompson (author of Waco: the Big Lie) was leaving the press area near the compound, she was detained five hours by an ATF agent, pointing an MP-5 submachine gun at her head. She took a picture of him, and successfully hid the negative before the car was illegally searched.
The Texas Penal Code, Subsection C, Article 9.31, says the use of force to resist arrest is justified if the peace officer uses greater force than necessary.
After the raid, the FBI took over the case and quickly sealed the compound from the world. All communications were cut, and the phone was directly wired to a regional Texas FBI headquarters. Linda Thompson says this is a felony (U.S. Code, title 18, sections 25-11).
The compound CBs and ham radio transmitters were illegally jammed also.
The only reports about what was occurring at Waco were given at 10:30 a.m. each morning by an FBI agent to a select group of news media.
Peter Gent, a nice-appearing young man, was shot on top of the water tower, and lay there for 51 days.
If anyone came out of the compound, agents are said to have thrown concussion granades at them.
The official report said that, during the siege, no one would be allowed to come outside the compound.
Those in the compound were subjected to noise, lights, and tanks charging around the buildings for 51 days.
A 51-minute FBI tape explains about the use of various psychological weapons.
A BBC broadcast mentioned that two Russian psychologists were brought in, to demonstrate techniques for penalizing the human mind, to the government agents at Waco. The entire operation seemed to be something of a field day to try out various weapons systems.
That BBC broadcast discussed a system whereby special threatening words could be masked in music or white sound, in an effort to induce a person to obey. The FBI was said to have used that system against the Koresh group. So the special words may have been included in the dying cat calls and so-called “Buddhist chants” which were aired over sound speakers every night to the compound.
CNN gave a similar report.
On November 17, 1993, Janet Reno attended a special convention on the use of such mind-changing weapons and techniques. It was entitled, “Non-lethal Defense.” Included were lazer weapons designed to blind, extremely low-level sound weapons to cause violent debilitation, and microwave radiation weapons.
Ten days before the fire, an agent was filmed testing the wind patterns around the complex. He would set off flares and watch the directions of the red smoke. Why did he need to do this?
The day before the fire, a tank cleared the bushes and cars in a wide firebreak swath around the entire compound, to keep the next day’s fire from spreading outside the cleared area. How did they know there would be a fire the next day?
According to the Justice Department Report, tear gas was inserted into all windows from Mark Vs through two CVs, as well as from Bradley vehicles.
Tear gas canisters were actually lobbed from 40mm guns in tanks into walls of houses. These canisters are 400mm morter shells, containing gas. The shells could easily kill anyone they might hit.
The gas was also hosed into the rooms of the compound through booms on the front of the tanks.
The Justice Department has since admitted that it was not regular tear gas, but CS gas which was used. But the manufacturer of the CS gas says it is never, never to be used inside an enclosed area! Doing so can so overcome the occupants of the room that they cannot get out in time.
The FBI had set up a sniper nest in a barn outside the main compound. Inside, sandbags had been placed along the lower part of the walls. Above the sandbags were holes punched in the walls for sighting and gun turrets, so they could fire at people.
On the morning of the fire, and throughout the day, up to 20 people trying to escape the building were seen by reporters. Twenty-one people were found shot. In the official report, the Justice Department said that only eight came out of the building.
Shots could be heard outside the building, echoing off the walls of the building. So they were shots fired at the house, not from it.
Paul Gray was the independent fire investigator who prepared the report, accepted as official, regarding the cause of the fire which destroyed the compound. He carried a card in his wallet, on which were the words: “ATF Fire Investigator.” His wife is employed by the ATF. His conclusion: “Persons inside the house started the fire.”
Heavy-duty millitary tanks were used on the day of the fire. These tanks are called CEVs (combat engineer vehicles), frequently shortened to CVs (combat vehicles).
Tanks, adapted for flame throwing, appear to have been used on the day of the fire. First, a tank with a punching boom would knock a hole in the wall, then a different tank would draw near and pour flame into the building through that hole. Then it would back off and, soon after, flames would erupt from that portion of the building. —This is the impression one receives upon seeing the videos of what occurred. (Perhaps some tanks both punched holes and threw flame.)
The flame coming from the tanks is quite noticeable, remarkably bright, and often rose or red in color. Smoke can also be seen issuing from the flame area on, what appears to be, a tank’s gun barrel.
A tank is shown as it inserts flames into holes in the wall at the back of the compound. At first, there is no smoke, except that coming from the nozzle of the tank. Then fire erupts from the outer wall of the building, where the tank had just been.
Then a tank is shown inserting flame into the front of the building, where the main door is, while smoke is billowing up from the back of the building. Flame can easily be seen issuing from the front of the tank.
A man is shown jumping off the roof of the compound as flames and smoke billow up in the background. His head appears encased in something shaped like a fireproof Nemox hood. Landing on the ground, he walks away and then takes off the hood.
In another scene, as the tank backs away from the wall, the area above the gun simultaneously begins to burn. It was not burning before.
Throughout that final day, agents were seen walking around the compound. There is no evidence that they were being fired upon by guns from within the building. It is of special interest that not one of those agents was struck by a bullet from the building at any time during that day.
Janet Reno later said there was no flame-thrower on the CV2 (the second tank). But the later Justice Department Report said that CV2 had broken down, and could not be used that day. A different one was used instead. We are not told what that one was equipped with.
The book, Janes Armor and Artillery, shows the M67 Flame-throwing Tank. That type of tank was seen there on the day of the fire. This type of tank is shown in diagrams as being equipped with a flame gun (M7-6), with a fake barrel extension to disguise the flame thrower. (Normally, the M67 tank would have an M-41 90mm gun.)
Some of the tanks had bulldozer blades and a boom arm attached.
When later asked what the flames coming out of the gun might be, Lloyd Bentsen, Treasury Secretary, said it was not flame.
When Richard Scruggs, Department of Justice, was asked, he said he did not really know, but that perhaps it was a busted hydraulic line. (The very detailed Treasury Report mentioned no damaged hydraulic lines.) Scriggs said that, more likely, it was the CS gas coming out of the barrel. He said this was a particulate (a dust) and would flow downward out of the barrel, whereas a flame would rise up into the air.
That assumption would be incorrect, since the M-67 Flame-throwing Tank pours out napalm through the nozzle of that M7-6 flame-thrower. Napalm is a jellied gasoline and is heavier than air. It would drop downward as it flowed outward, just as is seen in the video shots.
It was later claimed that the brightness was caused by reflections off the metal of the tank. But each tank is purposely painted with a special, non-reflecting paint in order to eliminate any possibility of reflections. In addition, this flame is extremely bright, especially when seen in the shadow of the building. Yet no reflections could occur within the shadow of the building.
It was said that the people inside started the fire in the gym, and that it spread outward to the rest of the building. But, at one point, video shots reveal most of the building on fire while the gym is intact with no smoke coming from it. It was still standing 20 minutes after the fire started.
The government has released a brief video sequence, showing a tank moving away from the building. It has the flame coming from it, and as it finally turns away, the entire upper, front end of the tank then glows like the sun with an intense reflection. This picture appears to have been digitized (doctored up), and the one who prepared it has admitted that it was digitized. Our own video engineer tells us that this is easily done through “rotoscoping,” as a paint-package is applied frame-by-frame to the pictures to change the black section of the tank to a bright golden brilliance.
Inquiring reporters were told that there was no direct military involvement in the siege.
It is illegal to use the military against U.S. citizens (Title 18, Section 1385, Crimes and Criminal Procedure, Posse Comitatus Act, U.S. Code). Active participation of the military against citizens is forbidden.
Yet one of the tanks is shown firing a 40mm gas morter shell into the building. Another view shows 40mm morter shell holes, very high up on the side of the second story of a building wall. Only trained military personnel could do that—not FBI agents.
Other videos were taken by the media of military men gassing the tanks early on the morning of the attack and fire. Other army men, with helmets and fatigues, are shown entering, the tanks. It is obvious they are doing what they are quite experienced at doing.
Other views reveal active military men in military and evacuation helicopters, preparing to fly off that morning, and then taking off.
Many of the men wear green berets. These are highly-trained military personnel.
In addition to tank flame-throwers, portable flame-throwers were also used on the day of the fire. These are backpack flame-throwers, the type used in World War II and Vietnam to burn the enemy to death in underground bunkers. Video shots show agents around the compound, wearing the backpacks. Smoke arises where they are, and then, as they walk away, flames erupt.
An agent is shown climbing out of a tank with one on his back. Two agents are shown dragging what appears to be a body. Then one of the agents, wearing a portable tank on his back, engages in a spraying motion over it. Then, suddenly, flames come up.
After the fire is nearly out at the compound, agents are seen approaching the concrete building (which used to be an integral part of the house). Then they walk away from it, and fire explodes upward behind them. Yet they are not surprised or take cover, but keep walking away. A thermite bomb is a military device which explodes on impact with the ground. Incindiary granades are variations of it. These devices, made of phosphorus or magnesium, burn with an extremely intense heat.
Why were they so concerned that everything must be destroyed?
Normally, government officials would try to preserve evidence after a fire so they can carefully examine it. Yet it is highly significant that the tanks were constantly pushing debris into the fire so it would all burn up and be destroyed—even before the fire was out. This is one fact which stands out forcefully.
Afterward, the entire building was rather quickly bulldozed, and all underground tunnels were filled.
Then a chain link fence was erected around the entire property, with warning signs to keep out. That fence and those signs are still there today.
The despicable foul spirit that animated Koresh continues to speak beyond the grave and controls the emotions and sensibilities of thousands of shallow-thinking Americans. Some of the more dense and stupid don't realize they are being controlled. Others do realize or at least suspect it, but prefer not to spend much time thinking about it. Rather they are just pleased to have been provided incident around which to coalesce their free-ranging formless rage agasint the government. That much of the incident is a lie that was fabricated by Koresh doesn't worry them. When it somes to hating the government, even a lie is useful and welcome.
During the Waco hearings, the FBI gave testimony that they concentrated CS gas at the exits, in an effort to huddle the Davidians toward the center of the building. No explanation was given of how that was supposed to get the people out of the building. Perhaps you can explain how the plan was supposed to result in Koresh's "hostages" getting out alive.
I certainly agree that this was the cause of the fire. It appears that this was similar to the Jim Jones incident. However the government probably could have done a slicker job in defusing the situation. The people running the show on the FBI side appear to have been like the managers at NASA before the Challenger disaster.
WOW! How do you do it...you manage to insult us shallow thinkers and the government then spin it and praise them again? You are some piece of work. Bill and Hillary would be proud!
What was the lawful order, and how was it given?
Tbe normal procedure for serving a search warrant is to present whoever answers the door with an official paper copy of the warrant and then begin the search. Even on a no-knock raid, the police are supposed to present a physical copy of the warrant after the premesis are secured, when they conduct their search.
There is no evidence that the BATF made any effort to follow such a procedure. If such a procedure was planned, then somebody should know who was supposed to present the warrant, and who was supposed to have it. Nobody has been able to testify to knowing any such thing. The plan was for the BATF to break into Koresh's home whether or not Koresh offered any resistance.
So I ask you, what was the "lawful order" Koresh was supposedly given, and how was he given it?
Oh good, then you can answer a question I've wanted answered for years:
Other than on a shooting range, under what circumstances is it lawful and appropriate for a law enforcement officer to discharge his weapon other than at a clear and specific identified hostile target?
I don't think the feds ever produced an 'illegal' weapon from the Davidian property. Of course, the feds claimed there was an evil .50 caliber, but I don't believe they ever produced the evidence of such a weapon.
I'm sure someone will correct my memory; it's only been ten years, you know.
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