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To: dinodino
Yes. Anything other than a direct reading is indefensible.

I seriously doubt the founding fathers had modern weaponry in mind when they wrote the second amendmant.

Do you really think it's a good idea for anyone to be able to buy a machine gun? That would fall into this argument. Maybe even a shoulder-held SAM launcher.
54 posted on 04/19/2003 8:41:58 AM PDT by Belial
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To: Belial
The long rifles made in Kentucky and Pennsylvania were far superior in accuracy, range, and rate of fire to the Brown Bess Musket carried by the British.

The founding fathers intended the citizens to have absolute parity with any standing army.
107 posted on 04/19/2003 9:24:10 AM PDT by the gillman@blacklagoon.com
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To: Belial
I seriously doubt the founding fathers had the internet in mind, while writing the first amendment.
153 posted on 04/19/2003 10:04:47 AM PDT by jeremiah (Sunshine scares all of them, for they all are cockaroaches)
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To: Belial
Do you really think it's a good idea for anyone to be able to buy a machine gun?

There are and have been illegal for many years. This isn't even an issue.

Another Feinstein and Schumer supporter?

155 posted on 04/19/2003 10:10:58 AM PDT by Joe Hadenuf
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To: Belial
I seriously doubt the founding fathers had modern weaponry in mind when they wrote the second amendmant

Read Federalist 46.

212 posted on 04/19/2003 12:55:57 PM PDT by Dan from Michigan ("I have two guns. One for each of ya." - Doc Holliday)
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To: Belial
I seriously doubt the founding fathers had modern weaponry in mind when they wrote the second amendmant.

At the time of the founding, it was legal for individuals to own cannon. Which do you think would be more lethal, an AK-47, or a muzzle-loading cannon filled with grapeshot (basicly turning it into a huge shotgun). The Constitution has explicit provisions for privateers (privately owned warships with rows of cannon)

Do you really think it's a good idea for anyone to be able to buy a machine gun? That would fall into this argument.

The Israelis have every 18-year-old citizen being subject to military service. These reservists keep their full-auto Uzi's, M-16, and Galils with them when they go home. You don't hear of any problems with that happening -- only with Palestinians

The Swiss also have universal military training, and their reservists ALSO keep their weapons at home (with a full combat load of ammo). Again, you don't hear of any problems.

My friend went to Romania a year ago with his wife to visit her family there. He told me you can buy a full-auto AK in the store for about $120. You don't hear of massacres in the streets in Romania

Your middle-class neighbors are not the problem. They can be trusted with firearms. The drug dealers and gang-bangers are the ones committing most of the violence. They will get guns regardless of the laws. Jamaican gang members in England (an island with draconian gun laws) get into shoot outs with machineguns that they somehow smuggle in (probably disguised as a routine cocaine shipment)

221 posted on 04/19/2003 1:15:35 PM PDT by SauronOfMordor (Heavily armed, easily bored, and off my medication)
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To: Belial
The purpose of the Second Amendment was to make sure that government would be prohibited from infringing on the right of every man to own arms equivalent in power to those carried by the military.

Yes, it's a good idea for anyone to be able to buy a machine gun. This is also legal, by the way--if you want a machine gun, and are willing to pay the price and the hefty taxes, you too can own one. Check the law.
236 posted on 04/19/2003 3:01:20 PM PDT by dinodino
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To: Belial
I seriously doubt the founding fathers had modern weaponry in mind when they wrote the second amendmant.

In a way, you'd be wrong. They knew that individuals, as well as some towns and townships, owned cannon. Some people owned cannon armed ships, the "ultimate weapon" of the day. Yet they put in no restrictions on what sorts of arms the people could keep or bear. Even a muzzle loading cannon armed with "grape" or "chain" would clear out a crowed much more effectively than any real full auto assault weapon, and a bit quicker too. Reload are sort of slow, but then so were reloads to muskets and especially rifles in those days.

They even put a provison aknowledging private ownership of these weapons into the base Constitution, before the Bill of Rights was added. That provision grants Congress the power to issure "Letters of Marque and Reprisal", which authorize private individuals to "hunt" the ships of particular foreign countries (that the Marque part, the Reprisal part is similar but applies to actions on land). Not much point in giving the Congress power to issue what amounted to "hunting licenses" if no one could own an appropriate weapon, in this case a ship armed with mulitiple heavy cannon.

271 posted on 04/19/2003 10:59:08 PM PDT by El Gato
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To: Belial
Do you really think it's a good idea for anyone to be able to buy a machine gun?

Yes, why not? They could before 1934, and machine guns had been around about 50 years at that point. The quasi ban on machine guns came about as a result of prohibition and the gangs it created, along with lots of the same time of hype and demonization of inanimate objectes that we see today, even though by then prohibition itself had been repealed. At least with prohibition they modified the Constitution to allow them to institute it, and afterwards that was seen to have been a mistake and the grant of power was repealed via another Constitutional amendment. I call it a quasi ban, because, depending on where one lives, "just anybody" can get a machine gun, even today. Prior to the early 1980s, one could get a brand new from the factory machine gun. Now it's somewhat more difficult and you can't get a truly "new" machine gun. You do have pay a $200 tax and get your local Sherrif or Chief of Police to sign a form stating there is no reason why you shouldn't have a machine gun.

OTOH, when passed that $200 Stamp Tax ammounted almost to an outright ban, since many of the guns themselves, say a Thompson submachine gun or a BAR automatic rifle (a favorite with crooks and G-men alike) could be had for little more than a tenth of that, making the guns inaccesable to all but the rich, corporations and of course crimnials who didn't bother with the tax.

272 posted on 04/19/2003 11:16:39 PM PDT by El Gato
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