[templar]

Sorry but no. Unless you can explain convincingly how such governmental restraint would not be an infringement. Shall not be infringed is a pretty strong constraint.

Sorry, but yes.

Try this experiment to get a better understanding of how things truly work. . Decide that you wish th obtain a maching gun (or RPG or whatever). Go out and buy one on the Black market (I understand they are supposedly available in some circles). You have excercized your freedom without asking the governments permission, or following any government prescribed methods, to do so. Now go downtown in NYC, LA, D.C., or any other big city and carry it around openly. You are excercizing your liberty, your right to keep and bear, and with no government regulation or consideration involved up to this point.

Do this, you will soon find the difference between liberty and freedom.

Or you could also excercize your freely made decisiion to obtain a manchine gun and follow the legally installed restraints society has placed on you. There will be absolutely nothing in thought or deed involved here. You will have lost some of your liberty, but you will still have your machine gun and be able to keep and bear it within the restraint on your liberty. You will have discovered that you still have the freedom to purchase and own one legally, but not the liberty of societal non-restraint on how and where you do it. Your right to keep and bear is still upheld and uninfringed (you have excersized it by completing this excersize), but the method in which you may exercize this right is regulated.

Again, don't argue some fantasy world stuff, just go out and do these things to get an understanding of how the real world works. BTW, I suggest you divest yorself of any personal and family responsibilities, financial obligations, etc. before attempting or accomplishing the first scenario.

[dinodino]

This would be the machine gun mfgd prior to 1986, right? Seeing as how we can't keep and bear NEW ONES legally, right? Why don't you think of this as infringement?

[El Gato]

Just because the way things trully work at the present time results in some nasty governmental consequences if one violates those restrictions, doesn't mean those restrictions are not an infringement. In fact it indicates that they are. Remember that the 2nd amendment doesn't apply to individuals making up the people, it applies to the government. Your distinction between liberty and freedom is incomprehensible. Although there is a distinction to be made, you haven't made it.

[El Gato]

Again, don't argue some fantasy world stuff, just go out and do these things to get an understanding of how the real world works

I'm fully aware of the way the real lworld currently works, but I thought we were discussing how the world is supposed to work, according the Constitution. We have a written Constitution, we should follow it or change it.