Officer exonerated in theater gun incident

WTNH ^ | 4/17/2003 | AP

[MineralMan]

"A basic rule of handgun safety is that there is no such thing as an "accidental discharge". The correct term is "negligent discharge"."

Ah, but you see, even the police can't figure out how this officer's weapon "went off." A true mystery, eh?

[templar]

Both Hartford police and state Capitol police could not determine why the gun went off and found no negligence on Warren's part.

Only two reasons I can think of.
(1) The trigger was pulled while the saftey was off.
(2) the gun had a round chambered and was in a fire.

If the officer isn't in a hospital burn unit, I would suspect (1)

[MineralMan]

"Only two reasons I can think of.
(1) The trigger was pulled while the saftey was off.
(2) the gun had a round chambered and was in a fire."

Can you imagine being in the seat behind this idiot? I'd have had some very choice words for him. I get pissed when people _talk_ during plays and movies. Discharging a firearm goes _way_ over the line.

[Nachoman]

Let this be a lesson. Never clean your loaded weapon in a crowded theater.

[freeper12]

Anyone ever notice that only cops guns go off accidentally? Its never an accident for anyone else...

[Eaker]

give him the opportunity to reappraise his situation by showing the gun, and then chambering a shell?

This is the worse gun advice that I have ever heard on FR.

You know NOTHING about guns or concealed carry!!!!!

You need to quit giving gun advice until you have something safe and legit to offer!!!

[Eaker]

You should have learned while training that you always carry the way you train. Always either with one in the pipe or not. You NEVER change the way you carry based on where you are going.

Never!!!

[Hodar]

You know NOTHING about guns or concealed carry!!!!!

And people who handle guns like I do, NEVER have to explain an accidental death, accidental discharge or have a gun get dropped and kill an innocent. I think the idea of carrying a gun with a live round chambered is both stupid and dangerous. And I think most hospitals, and gunshot victims would likely agree with me. People may still commit stupid acts, and hit an innocent, but they certainly knew that the gun was going to discharge when it did. Thinking for yourself doesn't hurt nearly as much as you have been told it does.

[coloradan]

That's why cops are special and should have access to types of guns and methods of gun carrying and transport that shouldn't be legally available to the rest of us. You see, guns simply behave differently around cops than around the rest of us.

[Eaker]

You handle guns without proper training and people like you are a bane to responsibly trained gun owners.

Are you too good for training??? Your arrogance of ignorance is stinking this thread to high heaven!!!

[Hodar]

I would then suggest that the training change. Would you rather be in close proximity of gun that gets dropped with a chambered shell, or an empty chamber? An automatic pistol with an unchambered shell is safe, it is a club. It takes only a moment to chamber. You certainly wouldn't champion carrying a shotgun around with a chambered shell while driving, would you? It's illegal in the states I've lived in. I can't see the logic in making pistols the exception, as the range of a pistol's lethality is far greater than a shotguns.

[Hodar]

Your arrogance of ignorance is stinking this thread to high heaven!!!

And we aren't explaining to the public why blind luck is the only thing that saved them from a gunshot at a theater. I think you are either abnormally slow, or place far too much trust on a mechanical safety mechanism. Mechanisms fail, accidents happen, and people will die. The worst that can happen when someone drops an unloaded pistol, is someone's gonna have a very sore foot.

[Eaker]

I would then suggest that the training change.

You are talking from a complete lack of training and experience and really should stop.

You have a fixation on dropped weapons. Quit dropping them and get some training.

Your suggestion to "change" training goes beyond the pale. You know nothing and propose that the experts change the way they do things, and have been doing them for years. Ridicules.

[Oberon]

I'm sorry, but there's no reason for him to have a chambered round while attending a play, it seems to me.

There's several modes of carry that are commonly discussed for the Colt Model 1911, which is a single-action semi-auto unlike the Browning in the incident mentioned above. One carry mode is Condition One or "Cocked and Locked," with round chambered, hammer back, and safety on.

You read that right.

Another mode in common useage is Condition Three, in which a round is chambered, hammer is down, safety is on. The disadvantage is that you've got to thumb back the hammer for the first shot.

People who are serious about concealed carry debate these carry modes endlessly, but none of them seriously advocates carrying a weapon with an empty chamber. If you need it, you need it loaded; if you don't need it, leave it at home.

In any case, it's not wise and probably not legal to pull out your carry gun and unload in the theater lobby.

And none of this is meant to exonerate the officer for his negligent discharge, either. I think he's at fault, yes; but I don't blame him for having a round in the chamber.

[flashbunny]

I'd have to agree that you are ignorant on firearms. Carrrying without a round in a chamber is recommended by pretty much nobody in the community of firearms professionals. And if you followed gun safety at all, you should know that California has a drop test for all handguns now sold there. So far ZERO weapons, even the cheapest lorcins or jennings, have failed a drop test. Zero. None. The only relatively recent handgun you would have a problem with would be an old single action ruger that was recalled back in the 60's or 70's.

I'm amazed at the amount of ignorant experts that want to tell everybody how they should do things when it comes to firearms.

[ArmstedFragg]

If the "Browning .380" in question was a BDA, there's a "decocking" lever to safely drop the hammer after a round is loaded, at which point it becomes a double-action for the first shot.

If one does not drop the hammer, it's possible to carry it in a "cocked and locked" mode. Possible, that is, if one is a complete idiot, since you're essentially eliminating one of the basic safety features of the weapon. I'm wondering if this guy just earned his "complete idiot" badge.

[MineralMan]

"You have a fixation on dropped weapons. Quit dropping them and get some training.

"

I assume the police officer involved in this incident had received training. That seems a valid assumption. His training did not prevent this negligent discharge, which endangered folks in this theater.

You can argue your point about concealed carry with a loaded chamber all you like. The point is that, despite training, this stupid cop discharged his firearm in a crowded theater. Only blind luck prevented an injury or death. Had the chamber of his Browning been empty, the firearm could not have discharged.

I'm quite sure he "accidentally" left the safety off on the weapon. I'm sure he "accidentally" triggered it in his shoulder holster.

Had he killed or injured somebody with his "accidental" stupidity, would he still have gotten off having any responsibility.

This cop should have his badge and weapon taken from him. Maybe he could have it back after additional training. As I said, had I been behind him in the theater, he would not soon have forgotten my anger at his stupidity, nor would I be settling for the PD's lame "We don't know how the gun went off" nonsense.

Do I trust you with a semi-auto with a round in the chamber? I do not. I do not know you. I do not know your skills or training. To me, you are just a stranger with a firearm. I trust nobody with a loaded firearm until I know their intentions.

Personally, I would never carry a semi-auto pistol with a round chambered unless I was going into a situation of present danger. Your opinion may vary, but that's my rule.

This theater presented no risk to this idiotic officer. There was no reason on earth for him to carry there with a chambered round. Given what happened, there was obvious reason this idiot should not have been carrying with a chambered round.

I never know whether an armed person is well-trained or not. I do not assume that they are. Armed people are not allowed in my place of business, and that includes cops who are there without invitation or a warrant.

[FreedomPoster]

>>This is nothing but negligence!!!

Worth saying again.

It just pisses me off to see something like this described as an "accident". In fact, the term "accidental discharge", so common it is often appreviated "AD", just sets me off. Descibing a negligent discharge as an "accidental" discharge should be a felony misuse of the English language.

A few years ago, a local cop shot and injured another cop with a weapon in an evidence locker. I actually got the following letter printed in the paper in response to the poor reporting:

Firearms safety rules ignored

A news item described how a Gwinnett County police officer was wounded when a rifle discharged as he and another officer were processing it ("Confiscated rifle discharges, wounds officer," Law and Order, June 18). This certainly should have been reported as a "negligent discharge," not as an "accident."

The four basic rules of firearms safety are:

All guns are always loaded.

Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.

Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target.

Be sure of your target.

The first two rules were certainly ignored. The third rule was also almost certainly ignored.

Firearms rarely fire on their own. The article states that "it discharged." This implies that the gun did this on its own. I would maintain that violation of the third rule is the more likely culprit.

[FreedomPoster]

[flashbunny]

And also, it's not a shell, it's a round. A shell is an empty case. A round is a case / shell filled with a live primer, powerder, and a bullet. Learn the basics before you start to preach how people should behave.

[FreedomPoster]

It was likely it was me. That's the kind of thing I would say, in any case, as you can see from my post just above.