Escaping Waco

ABCNews.com ^ | 4/15/03 | Charles Gibson

[Fred Mertz]

Revisionist history.

[Only1choice____Freedom]

What is the timing of this?

Are they trying to equate Iraq with Waco?

Do they want to feel justified in torching the campus?

Thank you Janet Reno.

[chnsmok]

I think Clinton's war against the right wing is heating up again.

[kevao]

How long did it take Bill Clinton and Janet Reno to effect "regime change" at the Branch Davidian compound?

[the gillman@blacklagoon.com]

...demonstrate the eerie effectiveness of Koresh's brainwashing techniques...

It isn't Koresh/Howell's brainwashing that threatens us.

Recycled lies.

[Diogenesis]

Where is the mention of Clinton, and Reno?

Does anyone anywhere doubt for a moment the bias of ABC?

[ClearCase_guy]

Will ABC also be showing "The Rules of Engagement" so that the public can see the alternate view of Waco?

[T'wit]

The issue of Waco is not whether Koresh was a con man but why Janet Reno and Bill Clinton aren't tried and hanged for mass murder.

[Pete]

I doubt that this program is airing just because it is the 10 year anniversary. There is another reason, which I am sure will be clear shortly. The story smells of 'agenda'.

[Beck_isright]

"I think Clinton's war against the right wing is heating up again."

I think you're correct.

[ClearCase_guy]

They did it for the children. (Gee, that sounds especially hollow in this context, huh?)

[sinkspur]

What is the timing of this?

The 10th anniversary of the fire is Saturday.

[sinkspur]

Revisionist history.

How is it revisionist to interview people who were actually under Koresh's thumb?

The place didn't need to be destroyed, but Vernon Howell was a lunatic who took advantage of a lot of gullible people.

He likely was jumping up and down at the opportunity to burn the place to the ground.

[AAABEST]

Our job was to resolve this thing peacefully.

[JohnGalt]

As the Clinton team determined the fate of the Waco children, it's interesting to note that Sessions was a Bush holdover and escaped much of the rightwing wraith. After Sessions was fired in July, he rehabilitated his image as being fired at the same time Vince Foster committed suicide. Seems Vince Foster was the only honorable one among the lot...

Time line front PBS: Frontline:

TUESDAY, APRIL 13:
For most of the afternoon, KORESH bombards the negotiators over the phone with what they call "Bible babble," reiterating that he is not coming out until God tells him to do so. HUBBELL meets for 45 minutes in White House counsel Bernard NUSSBAUM's office with top CLINTON aides, Bruce LINDSEY and Vince FOSTER, to discuss the CS gas plan and advise Clinton (This is said to be the "most likely date" of a meeting that occurred sometime during this week.) HUBBELL backs FBI's action plan, citing negotiations impasse and need to pull the HRT back for training. NUSSBAUM reports to CLINTON, telling him that Waco is a matter for the Justice Department to handle. [Scruggs 105, 242, 243, 244]


FRIDAY, APRIL 16:
KORESH tells negotiators that he has completed the manuscript on the First Seal. RENO rejects the tear gas plan, according to what RICHARD says HUBBELL told him. SESSIONS, CLARKE, and POTTS hurry to HUBBELL's office, and SESSIONS asks to speak with RENO. Ten minutes later HUBBELL returns with RENO, who orders a written statement "describing the situation inside the compound, the progress of negotiations, and the merits" of the plan, plus supporting documentation for all factual assertions. [Scruggs 107, 271]




SATURDAY, APRIL 17:
Louis ALANIZ, who is not a Branch Davidian, but who sneaked into the compound early during the siege, leaves. RENO meets with HUBBELL, SESSIONS, CLARKE and POTTS and other Justice Department officials and reviews the statement covering rules of engagement and supporting documents. RENO approves the FBI's tear gas plan but gives the prepared material "only a cursory review, leaving tactical decisions to those at Waco." [Scruggs 5, 107, 108, 272, 273]




SUNDAY, APRIL 18:
RENO briefs CLINTON on the CS gas plan, and the President "concurs," but asks questions about assuring the children's safety and adds, "It is your decision."...HUBBELL and LINDSEY are also in the loop...Armored vehicles clear KORESH's Chevrolet Camaro and other vehicles away from the front of the compound...Although the FBI warns the Davidians to stay out of the tower, they hold children up in windows and, in one window, hold a sign saying, "Flames Await." [Scruggs 108, 109, 244, 245, 273]

[Tall_Texan]

While Koresh may have been a seductive madman, it's obvious the ATF and FBI bungled this. First, they tried to raid the compound rather than seizing Koresh on one of his runs into town. Secondly, once they had botched the initial raid, they brought in tanks to ram the building while lobbing canisters of tear gas. Whether that actually started the blaze is debatable but they created the climate for it and made sure the building was going to have plenty of air so the fire would burn faster.

I can't honestly say whether Clinton should be held accountable but there's no doubt Reno should be. She even professed responsibility in press conferences.

Even if you believe it was done with good intentions (again debatable), their actions in creating and dealing with the situation were abominable.

[rvoitier]

Get your copy of Waco:Rules of Engagement HERE.

[weegee]

How long did it take Bill Clinton and Janet Reno to effect "regime change" at the Branch Davidian compound?

~50 days. And I think that it is sick that the left, who warn of military actions and a police state still have not spoken out against the use of tanks on Amercian soil.

[the gillman@blacklagoon.com]

Funny this is from ABC. ABC World News Tonight with Aaron Brown showed the entire uncut video taken by the ATF in which one could see the jbt's running toward the front door.

It opens and a guy looks out. His jaw drops and he yells something. The jbt's start shooting. The door closes. The jbt's sweep the house with their weapons blasting the front door and the front of the house full of holes.

After a time one, then two then a few more shots come through the walls from inside.

There's a lot of wild motion and then the jbt's are out of ammo. They stand there stupidly for a while. The door opens and a couple of guys from inside stand in the doorway in shock.

The JBT's hold their empty weapons in the air and back away dragging at least one fallen comrade.

This was about 4:40 am eastern. I was up early because I used to work at 6am and liked to be early.

Shocking video.

I knew at that point that the people inside were not really bad folk, because I knew that if it had been my house, I would have gone out and shot each and every one of those jbt's in the head.

Instead, they let them withdraw and set up the perimeter that ensured the murder of those inside.

Half an hour later, when Brown was back from wherever, they showed it again, only this time it was edited to what many people have seen, and did not include the front door scene. It was edited again I believe before the morning shows began.

ABC and Brown have to have seen the uncut version for themselves and kept it to themselves. That pretty much makes them scum.

I was fairly indifferent to politics until that moment, although I already hated Clinton.

I will never forget.

They have never been punished.