Cable's War Coverage Suggests a New 'Fox Effect' on Television

NY Times ^ | April 16, 2003 | JIM RUTENBERG

[Kip Lange]

Oh, absolutely, I'm just saying, I will admit that some at FNC will say a conservative thing here or there (GOD FORBID). Unfortunately for the libs...80% of Americans agree with Fox. So, um, apparently, the "fair" thing to do is to represent the views of the minority as the views of the majority...right?

Perfect liberal logic. :-)

[Ciexyz]

"Joseph Goebbels" Propaganda bump. Most interesting speech. Why do I think of Hillary while reading it?

[Illbay]

I personally think they put him on MSNBC to make all conservatives look bad.

[Kip Lange]

Too bad the rabid anti-semitic Israel hating leftists in the Democratic party and their EU supporters can't say the same.

Aye. It makes me sick. LEAVE THE JEWS ALONE! Has any one group been more persecuted throughout history? Sheesh! Anti-semitic crime is up SIXFOLD in France after their shameless maneuvering. I hope they're proud.

Again, I give you major cajones credit for posting the Goebbels piece (I can imagine what any lefty lurkers are thinking). I've been wanting to post quotes from Goebbels for a while regarding propaganda, because -- there is NOTHING wrong with taking a page from his playbook, if the cause is right, and doesn't involve, say, killing all the Jews. There has been no one before or since who has grasped so well the intricacies and the value of propaganda. Except, maybe, certain elements of the American left. It's time we buckle down and think hard about propaganda. Propaganda isn't about debunking one point or another; it's about setting the agenda itself. In other words, propoganda is NOT stating a viewpoint; it is setting the stage as to which viewpoints will be discussed at all. Propaganda is why, every four years, we're told, with great confidence, that Social Security is falling apart. Then we, as Republicans, go on the defensive and try to prove that we're not out to kill old people (or push them off cliffs, as the DNC would like people to believe). We're *reacting* to propaganda. It's time we started focusing on setting the agenda.

[Kip Lange]

I've had the same thoughts, but I've got to say, I find him no more annoying than I find Ann Coulter annoying (oh, please don't flame me, everybody, I listen to both of them, just sometimes, I don't listen to either of them...).

[Illbay]

I like to read Ann, I don't like to listen to her.

I much prefer Laura Ingraham. She actually has a figure, besides.

[FreeLibertarian]

I personally think they put him on MSNBC to make all conservatives look bad.

You may be correct, he certainly is a disgrace to conservatives.

[freedom4me]

Tonight C-Span aired a program about the Pentagon. As the cameraman walked into General Richard Meyers office, you could hear the FOX News Operation Iraqi Freedom music playing. I just laughed and laughed.

I sent an e-mail to Roger Ailes recently asking him to consider a Hannity & Colmes-type format that would feature the likes of Armstrong Williams, Niger Innis, Ward Connerly, Larry Elder on the conservative side. I said, "You can choose the liberals." Anyway, I would love to hear both points of view discussed by African-American leaders.

I'd like to see this program replace any of the following:

Fox and Friends (weekend)
Big Story with Rita "my sources tell me" Cosby
John Kasich
At Large with Geraldo Rivera

[CheneyChick]

(CC shaking her head...) They just don't get it, do they....

[Kip Lange]

That IS a great idea. I'd hate to see F&F go on the weekend, cuz that's when they bring in "trial" infobabes... ;-)

Kasich, Geraldo, and Rita -- and all of her "sources", I have never heard a reporter blab so much about her "sources" -- same reporter who, I *vividly* recall, read the Supreme Court ruling during the election as..."VICTORY FOR GORE!" before Fox cut away in a hurry. :p -- they can all go. Kasich is well-meaning but soooo bland. Geraldo is a media whore. And Rita is like the Candy Crowley of Fox ("hey, look, we have one unattractive reporter, we're not COMPLETLEY beautiful!"). ;-)

[this_ol_patriot]

One of the best Nazi and East German propaganda archives I've found on the web.

http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/

[FreeLibertarian]

In defense of Savage, he's much like any other talking head I listen to. I agree with him sometimes; I disagree with him sometimes; sometimes I feel he's going over the top for ratings. In Savage's case, he goes over the top...a lot.

I do not feel, however, that he deserves *nearly* the level of invective you are levelling at him. Save that for other Michaels, of the Moore variety. :p

"Going over the top for ratings" is appropriate for entertainment programs not Conservative talk shows. Possibly Savage is not as stupid as he comes across on the show but that only makes it worse. If "Talking Heads" can't carry their programs with intelligent commentary then they shouldn't be on the air. When "Talking Heads" try to out compete each other to see who can be the most outlandish I respond by turning them all off. I don't need some blow dried air-head telling me what to think.

[Kip Lange]

I turn them all off, too.

I'm not disagreeing with anything you say, just saying maybe you should save your anger for the REAL j**koffs, like, say, Michael Moore.

I don't need some blow dried air-head telling me what to think.

...and I doubt anyone here at FR would take issue with that...so...um...what's your point, besides the fact that you don't like Michael Savage? :p

[this_ol_patriot]

It's that simple.

One of the worst cases of news bias I saw was during the Bush/Gore vote recounts. On MSNBC Lester Holt and Chris Jansing had a big scam going. Every time something good for Bush would happen Lester Holt would show an angry mad face and Chris Jansing would almost be in tears. When some good Gore news (which wasn't much) came along Lester would get a big sheet eating grin and Chris would beam a pretty toothy smile. I thought it was me and my Bush bias so I put on my grey colored glasses and it was there, it wasn't me.

[azGOPgal]

Still, MSNBC's moves have news executives and some liberal critics worried that Fox's success will push TV news too far from a neutral tone.

I don't see how they can be worried about this when CNN is not taking a neutral tone. They are certainly left of the middle when it comes to their reporting. But we don't hear them complaining about CNN, now do we?

[azGOPgal]

Ping!

[freedom4me]

I think Rita's a good at snooping out a story, but she's not on-air material.

Again, one reasong I'm for showcasing black conservatives is because, just as in Iraq, we must win the hearts and minds of young blacks. Many of them don't have the civil rights axe to grind and they genuinely want to know how they can have a piece of the pie vs. handouts from the government. They've seen the destruction that the "Great Society" brought to their parents' generation and they want something better.

[WellsFargo94]

They must be afraid that Fox is enticing us into some hedonistic trap from which there is no escape.

[Babu]

Michael Savage has become an egomaniac. And that's a very sad thing. He really is quite brilliant, if he could just control his massive ego and his out-of-control anger. Wonder if he found his dog a new home because he was beating the dog???

[Contra]

What went on between FOX, MSNBC and CNN during the war coverage was very interesting. A few thoughts: First, CNN assumed that they would get the best ratings (they came right out and said so) that American viewers would "come home" so to speak based on their position as the first in this genre. But CNN of today and of years ago are very different; in the early days they use to just cover the news, but now they spout anti-American propaganda befitting the Iraqi information minister. CNN has to be alarmed to see their ratings plummet and FOX's soar. MSNBC, seeing how bottom of the barrel they've become (with such flaming liberals as Donahue, Chung, Matthews, etc.) has apparently decided to change gears a little bit and become more like FOX than CNN. They did have some conservative views expressed and even had that wall of heroes with pictures of the military and their families, which was a nice touch. MSNBC is still too left wing but they are to the right of CNN at least (which isn't very hard to do). CNN has now said they are "global" rather than a U.S. medium, which is their way of saying this is why we are anti-American. The other thing that has hurt CNN are the recent revelations that they sold their soul to stay in Iraq, refusing to report Iraqi atrocities (for years) rather than be kicked out of the country. There was no need for CNN to be in Iraq if they were there just to spout Iraqi propaganda and refuse to report the real news. That stance didn't save lives, it cost lives, because it covered up what was really happening there for years. Better that they had been kicked out of Iraq doing their job than to do the bidding of Saddam Hussein. CNN has blood on their hands and now (thanks to Drudge) everybody knows it. FOX has strengthed their position, CNN has lost ground and if MSNBC continues to move to the right, they have an opportunity to move ahead of CNN. And FOX reported the truth because how could anything but a positive spin been the truth? The war was won in under 3 weeks and every objective was met, now what part of that could possibly be construed as negative? CNN lies, FOX tells the truth and MSNBC is somewhere in the middle. People are seeking out truthful, conservative news outlets like Rush, Drudge, FOX, Washington Times, Free Republic, etc. and staying away from lying, liberal outlets like CNN, Washington Post, NY Times, etc. The trend couldn't be clearer.