Shock and awe not only for Iraqis {The "Fair" tax cometh}

WorldNetDaily ^ | 4/16/2003 | By Joan Veon

[JohnGalt]

Get over what? The cost of an income tax is built into the price of our items. If they buy 'stuff' they are supporting the tax regime, if even indirectly.

The idea of every convenience store owner being a tax collector is anathema to the American experience; I think the culture and conservatives are better served with an IRS and an Income Tax until the damn amendment is repealed all together.

[Principled]

The idea of every convenience store owner being a tax collector is anathema to the American experience;

JohnGalt, this is what we have now!!!

The wool is over your eyes.

[JohnGalt]

Then I shall clarify, federal tax collector.

The remedy for what you allude to here in Massachusetts is to hop over the border in tax-free New Hampshire. Tyranny of location is still subverted where as at the federal level, there would be no escape.

[Paul C. Jesup]

You missed my point, a 'fair tax' is better than what we have now because at the VERY least it elimates 90%-95% of the paper work and pencil pushers.

[Extremely Extreme Extremist]

I want some of what you and the author are smoking.

Current unconstitutional income tax is already a VAT. Manufacturers pay taxes on raw materials to make into products, then they're taxed again when they're sold to sellers.

Taxes are again levied on those finished goods when they're sold to consumers.

The Fairtax completely eliminates all these hidden taxes, producing a single tax levied on the final good or service sold to consumers.

Would you rather be taxed on your income or on what you spend? Under a Fairtax, prices on most goods and services would actually DROP because there is no hidden taxes built into the product.

[Ga Rob]

I am saying if you advocate a flat income tax, then trust fund babies still get over because they do not live on income, they still are not taxed the same as others who work for an income. But they have to buy things...expensive things, then they get taxed just like everyone else.

So you don't want an income tax or a sales tax? How would you propose funding the goverment? Or do we not need that either?

[Extremely Extreme Extremist]

There's so many Chicken Littles that don't realize they're their own worst enemies. Of course, there are one or two people on the tax threads that have a vested interest in the tax quagmire and will fight tooth and nail and obfuscate to continue the quagmire.

You hit the nail on the head. Imagine how many H & R Block reps and tax accountants would be out of jobs. Not to mention the lobbyists that fight on behalf of the income tax.

That sound you've heard is the Founders rolling over again in disgust.

[JohnGalt]

I don't believe in using the tax code to support some social end, like sticking it to the 'trust fund' babies or any other class envy end. I do believe in reducing spending at the federal level to 4% of GNP, which could be supported with excise and non-protective tarriffs as it was for over a century prior to the mad Congress of the 19-teens.

[Dick Bachert]

George, George, George! The flat tax you profess to prefer is STILL an INCOME tax Karl Marx laid out in his Communist Manifesto, Plank Two. And though it MAY start out flat, so did the current mess. How long do you think it will take for the new cute little monkey to morph into the huge 800# gorilla we face each April 15th?

Is your hatred and envy of the EVIL RICH -- whom the statistics prove are NOT a fixed, static group -- such that you would embrace Marxist SOCIALISM and the wealth redistrubution Bastiat called "legalized plunder" to get at them?

Tsk, tsk, tsk...

IF YOU WANT THIS MAN – AND MEN LIKE HIM – TO REMAIN IN CONTROL OF YOUR ECONOMIC AND PERSONAL DESTINY, CONTINUE TO TOLERATE THE CURRENT MARXIST INCOME TAX SYSTEM.

ONE MORE TIME:

IT’S ABOUT

P O W E R AND C O N T R O L!!

SIGN THE PETITION AT HTTP://WWW.VOTR.ORG. Then find out how you can do more to end America’s peculiar SPRING MADNESS.

[Principled]

I am not talking about any specific state or states as you posit.

I am, however, illustrating that what you purport to fear is the situation in which we now find ourselves under your beloved income tax.... to wit: a tax that is part of the price of every single good and service available in these United States. Currently, that tax is 22% tax inclusive. You just don't seem to understand that you're already paying it.

Further, under an nrst, not all things would have the tax included in the price as is the situation today.

Further, under your beloved income tax, the 22% tax is hidden; so numbskulls don't even know they're paying it.

Further, under the nrst, the tax becomes completely visible, itemized on the receipt of every taxable - so even dolts will know the burden of our federal tax system.

[Polybius]

But wouldn't your "Old Money Harry's" still get over with a flat tax? They live off wealth, not income. It seems to me the only way they would pay would be through a sales tax.

Or, as I proposed in Post #6, a wealth tax.

You can say that wealth earned by an individual is tax exempt. Inherited wealth up to $1 million dollars per person and wealth in the form of a productive family business is tax exempt. Beyond that, inherited accumulated wealth can be taxed at a certain percentage rate per year.

As it is right now, the truly wealthy such as the Kennedys and individuals such as John Kerry who is living off the wealth earned by the ancestors of the deceased first husband of his current wife are truly wealthy but pay no taxes on that wealth.

[Ga Rob]

gotcha...I see where you're coming from now. You're right in one respect all these tax systems have a class envy factor built right into them.

HHHmmmm....I need to do some more research..Thanks.

[JohnGalt]

I am not sure I care for your debating style but it seems some basics will have to be outlined for you.

A true flat tax, with no exceptions and no medicare no SS, no hidden unemployment insurance tax, would be paid every April 15. Withholding tax would be eliminated, of course.

Unlike seeing a dollar at the bottom of a receipt, folks would be taking out loans to pay their tax bills. The DC tax regime wouldn't last one election cycle.

Its a political theory not a tax reform theory-- recognize the difference because I am sure your intentions are in light of the bigger cause, starving Leviathan.

[11th Earl of Mar]

Bush is globalizing our tax laws

And our present graduated income tax system is one of the ten basic principles for a communist society. [See the Communist Manifesto].

In that light the VAT does not sound so bad. And at least it is somewhat voluntary- you pay the tax only if you purchase the item in question. The income tax is regressive, punitive and compulsary.

[samuel_adams_us]

Let the government do this, when the middle of america goes bust so will the entire world. At that point in time the dollar will only be good used as toilet paper and the poor will rise up against the rich and destroy them. If you don't believe this just ask the French what happened to the king a couple hundred years ago. The rich who would think this plan would work are stupid, the poor out number them 100 million to one and once the poor start starving they will start feasting on the rich.

[samuel_adams_us]

If you buy it black market you are only supporting those who need it. When the government does this, the people will find other ways to get things, it's called bartering and if you remember right, the United States was founded because the brits wanted to tax us to death.

[Principled]

I think it doesn't matter your feelings about any poster's debating style. That aside, there is no such animal as a flat income tax that eliminates withholding payroll taxes; nor is there any flat income tax proposal that eliminates withholding. Perhaps that is something that needed outlining for you?

Or are you simply arguing nonsense?

[JohnGalt]

"there is no such animal as a flat income tax that eliminates withholding payroll taxes"

What are you talking about? Do you mean besides Steve Forbes and Dick Armey?

[Principled]

Uhm. You should read those better.