Shock and awe not only for Iraqis {The "Fair" tax cometh}

WorldNetDaily ^ | 4/16/2003 | By Joan Veon

[George Frm Br00klyn Park]

All, Joan has written well about the coming tax system. Except, if it IS a "VAT", the "21 to 27 percent" paid on purchases WILL be many times more. The "value added" for each transaction from producer through many government mandated middlemen will HAVE to be added on to the final purchase price. That is how a VAT works. Peace and love, George.

[Black Bart]

the full tax plan of $726 billion

What does this mean? Our federal government is going to operate on a paltry $726 billion? Am I dreaming?

Or did the author mean the plan to CUT taxes by $726 billion? Shoddy, shoddy writing. I am disappointed in WorldNet for publishing this low quality article.

[JohnGalt]

Joe and Jane Sixpack are hooked on cheap credit; why would a self-proclaimed anti-gloablist not hold them accountable and merely blame the leasure class for essentially, holding stock in American companies?

[George Frm Br00klyn Park]

Lastly, it's time to examine what George Bush stands for, because it appears he is trying to harmonize our tax laws with the other countries of the world. There has been no clarification – let alone an announcement – that the Bush administration is changing the tax code. Why keep truth from the American people? What happened to the country that the colonists fled to from the British and European feudalistic systems?
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Guys, I have written many times that the "fair" tax is a system designed by the wealthy for the wealthy and their moneyhandlers. I have also written that the NRST is DESIGNED to destroy the middle class in this country, and that "step on the ladder" from "rags" to riches that has been a hallmark of what the U.S. of A. has done so well over the last two hundred plus years.

It is DESIGNED to put the onus on those who are starting out, and must buy EVERYTHING in order to JUST get by. It is EVIL!!

What WAS the "popularity" rating of Bush the senior after the first Iraq war?? Peace and love, George.

[Enduring Freedom]

The current tax system makes slaves of Americans who work.

The fair tax is just that, fair. I encourage all of you to support it.

Lefties will shriek, whine and cry, of course.

Let them howl.

[Polybius]

Our current tax system does not necessarilly tax the "wealthy" such as the the Kennedy Trustafarians. It taxes the "earners" that are busting their butts to earn enough money to become wealthy.

Yesterday, 15 April 2003, I mailed off the final payment for $103,000.00 that the U.S. Government taxed me for the priviledge of earning money during Tax Year 2002.

I propose that a wealth tax on the trust funds of the truly wealthy, such as the Kennedys and John Kerry's wife, be instituted so that some of the tax burden can be shifted from the not-yet-wealthy hard workers to the wealthy non-workers.

[Enduring Freedom]

Rank 10 Americans by income.

The top 5 pay more than 96% of the income tax.

The bottom 5 - less than 4%!!!

The current system exists because corrupt politicians can buy votes with someone else's money! That someone is you!

The unfairness is incredible!

People who pay no taxes vote for (or tell pollsters they favor) more taxes. Why not? They don't have to pay them!

Add to that the massive non-productive paperwork and filing of tax returns, and the burden on our best workers rises even more.

Stop the insanity.

A fair tax eliminates the bias, and will unleash our creative talents, unchained by government interference.

A renaissance the likes the world has never seen will spawn innovation, wealth and freedom.

It is worth fighting for.

[lewislynn]

Under this VAT (value-added tax), every time a purchase is made, there will be up to a possible 27 percent tax on it. This tax could replace the tax on income, making only consumption taxable while all forms of income are tax-free.

Just exactly what we all knew. IF a consumption tax was introduced it would be in conjuction with the income tax...The only way it will pass is if the Democrats know it will suck more of our money.

The first Bush Presidency was cancelled because of his lie, "read my lips, no new taxes". This Bush is spending money like a drunken Democrat and not just on war and terror...history repeats itself?

[Jotmo]

Once again the “Static Model” amateur economists have come out to play. This article is so full of holes I hardly know where to begin.

I’ll start with this. He seems to think “Old Money Harry” will get all the benefit because his trust fund wont be taxed, but conveniently forgets that he will be PAYING more when he spends his ”Old Money”. How many people does he think are living off of trust funds and not working? Could it possibly be more than 100,000?

It may be true that peoples spending habits will change, like they’ll SPEND LESS and SAVE/INVEST MORE because it wont be taxed.

Oh the horror.

Taxes on items you purchase will go up, but with businesses freed of their odious tax burden, don’t you think they might lower prices to gain market share? Wouldn’t that help offset the tax and not put such a damper on spending?

Not to mention all of the capital companies would have when everyone realizes there’s no tax on income from capital gains and starts buying stock by the truck load.

I’m highly disappointed in WND. I expect a lot more from them.

[Blood of Tyrants]

I really hate it when morons claim that the deficit is caused by lack of income instead of the real culprit: uncontrolled spending on unconstitutional programs.

Governments like the VAT because it HIDES the tax somewhere in the manufacturing process and the consumer never knows how much he is paying in taxes. A national sales tax paid when you spend your money is fair if you rebate the tax on the first $20,000 or so and you know EVERYTIME YOU BUY SOMETHING how much you are paying in taxes.

[heckler]

I suspect that some people will confuse this with the "Fair Tax" as proposed at the web site http://www.fairtax.org.

There is a huge difference between a national retail sales tax and a "Value Added Tax"

[MalcolmS]

All, Joan has written well about the coming tax system. Except, if it IS a "VAT", the "21 to 27 percent" paid on purchases WILL be many times more. The "value added" for each transaction from producer through many government mandated middlemen will HAVE to be added on to the final purchase price. That is how a VAT works.

I don't believe this to be true. We have business interests in Canada which has a 7% GST (Essentially a VAT). Here's how it works:

Jim cuts down an oak tree from his woodlot and sells it to a mill for $1,000 + $70 GST. He deducts $40 to cover GST he has paid on his truck, chainsaw etc. and remits $30

The mill cuts the lumber and sells the boards to a furniture company for $2,000 + $140 GST. It deducts the $70 GST it has already paid and remits $70

The furniture company manufactures several dining room suites with the wood, and sells it direct to consumers for a total of $4,000 plus $280 GST. It deducts the $140 GST it has paid on the wood, and remits $140.

So the government gets a total of $140 (from furniture mfr) + $70 (from lumber mill) + $30 (from Jim) + $40 (from Jim's suppliers, truck, chainsaw etc) = $280.

So the government gets only the $280 total--it's not multiplied.

There are advantages to this for business if it replaces income tax. Goods coming into the country have VAT applied at the border. So US business can compete on a level playing field with lower taxed foreign competitors.

Remember that US business are burdened by three tax disadvantages.

1) A corporate tax rate that is no. 3 in the world, soon to be no. 1 as the two higher european countries are planning on lowering their rates.

2) A tax on worldwide profits. The US is, I believe, the only industrialized nation to do this. US firms operating overseas must pay taxes in the foreign jurisdiction as well as to the IRS. In some cases, tax treaties reduce double taxation.

3) Double taxation on dividends, which halves the attractiveness to investors of companies which have a great ongoing business which is not high-growth (i.e. no capital gains).

Note that this is a simplified example since the furniture company would also get to deduct GST paid on machinery and supplies.

[heckler]

Imagine the effect on the economy if all those people out there in the private sector and in govt. are doing something productive instead of burning resources to adhere to our current tax code.

[George Frm Br00klyn Park]

"People who pay no taxes vote for (or tell pollsters they favor) more taxes. Why not? They don't have to pay them!

Guys, EXACTLY!!! So, In order to "rectify" {I considered rectumfy} that, the "fair" taxers would create a conglomerate of "Old Money Harrys" who pay no taxes and have the wherewithal to pay attention and influence those who make the tax laws to "protect" them better.

I suggest a true flat tax based on income with NO deductions and/or exemptions including tax free "non-profits". NO EXCEPTIONS!! Peace and love, George.

[JohnGalt]

I am in agreement on the flat tax, and my neoconservative 'friends' at the American Spectator are hinting that tax reform will be a major theme for the Bush 2004 run-- keep in mind, after Bush's preformance so far this libertarian conservative's vote is still up for grabs.

My argument was strictly with the author of this article which I found less than satisfying and pandering.

Joe Sixpack's love of cheap credit is a fundamental problem with the culture which I think 'economic conservatives' need to confront, part of which, is "rewarding" the investor class rather than "punish" savings and investments.

[George Frm Br00klyn Park]

"don’t you think they might lower prices to gain market share?"

JM, NO!! I think{?} companies will return more tax free money to investors in order to lure more tax free money into the company. Prices on goods from our foreign "partners" have NOT gone down to benefit consumers. On the contrary, those prices have gone UP to benefit investors. Else, investors would transfer their money to a company that did benefit investors. Peace and love, George.

[Paul C. Jesup]

You seem to forget one thing

THE IRS IS DESTROYING THE MIDDLE CLASS!!

Almost anything would be better than this country's current tax system, so quit bitching about what MIGHT happen and start worrying about what IS happening.

[Principled]

This is all hogwash George. Nothing is subtantiated, claims are made with no factual basis and no research, and the article ignores volumes of research already in the literature.

Steaming pile alert. Not worth my time.

Basic fact #1: the Fair Tax is NOT a vat... our current graduated income tax and the oft proposed flat income tax ARE both VATs. THis guy has his head in his arse.

[Paulus Invictus]

As a small businessman, I spent more than 12 days just preparing my data for the tax accountant who has to help me make some sense of the Tax Code (who can possibly understand that million-pages of sustained idiocy?). The result is that I had to pay additional taxes for some obscure reasons even my accountant could not explain.

We consider ourselves middle-class (should that be spelled clASS?), but very year we seem to lose more purchasing power and savings--all due to the increase in taxes. I recently calculated that I pay at least 16 taxes to various and sundry gummint collectors at every level. That amounts to "taxation without competent representation" and I am near to telling them all it is far too much to ask me to pay over 50% of my income to support so many useless gummint programs. Taxes have just put me out of business. "I'm mad as hell and I won't take it anymore!" Time for a national tea party! How come the Russians were smarter than we are and put in a flat tax that seems to be working well?

[George Frm Br00klyn Park]

"Basic fact #1: the Fair Tax is NOT a vat"

Guys, It doesn't have to be. Just a tax on goods at the final point of purchase, as the article states imposes a much harder bite on the middle class and the "lower" class than it does those who have already bought those things they need. The VAT would simply compound that bite. Deductions and/or exemptions are the MAIN problem with our tax system of today. Why should ANYONE get a break with ANY tax system. Including sellers and manufacturers. Maybe because they are licensed by godgov? If a "common" citizen cannot sell an article without the buyer having to pay a tax {godgov WILL know}, why should godgov's chosen licensed merchants?? This is favoritism, AND, unequal treatment under the "law". Socialism, in a word. So is ANY tax system that encourages one social activity over another. Such as saving and spending. Peace and love, George.