American Airlines Flight Attendants "Narrowly Reject" Concessions - AMR Headed For Bankruptcy

Fox News Channel ^ | April 15, 2003 | N/A

[Illbay]

Could be a long summer for airline travel!

[sinkspur]

That was before bankruptcy. Creighton made a stupid remark that affected the stock price. He actually said it on 9/12/2001.

[Beck_isright]

At the time of 9-11 it was not ONLY the government's responsibility. As part of deregulation, the airlines agreed to share the majority of the burden. You are 100% wrong to blame everything on the government. This was a 90-10 screw up. And two of the companies responsible for the 90 will soon be Chapter 11. I guess, as I said earlier, corporate and personal responsibility always falls to the courts. God forbid a company or individual pays for things that they signed up and acknowledged responsibility for.

[MonroeDNA]

Love your name here.

Beck ruling is right!

[Beck_isright]

Thank you.

[WhatHappenedtoAmerica]

I think your perspective is way off. Do you blame the sheep if a shepherd lets in a wolf? Are the airlines responsible for the first trade center bombing? What if these guy would have dispersed chemicals using crop duster or blown up a nuke plant? Would the airlines have been responsible for those actions? The responsibility rests with the many government agencies that let our people down.

[honway]

At the time of 9-11 it was not ONLY the government's responsibility. As part of deregulation, the airlines agreed to share the majority of the burden

The airlines did not refuse permission to the Minneapolis FBI office to look at the 20th hijackers laptop. That was FBI Headquarters. The laptop had sufficient information to have alerted the government to the 9-11 plot.

Exactly what burden did the airlines fail in? The FAA permitted box cutters on flights, that was not an airline rule.

[Beck_isright]

The airlines strongly opposed profiling because they "feared" it would cause lawsuits from potential customers. Please refer to post #182. They had a chance in 1998 to reform and instead of investing in infrastructure and cooperating with the FAA, FBI, CIA, etc., they elected to increase pay for employees, executive bonuses, and bribes to Congress to prevent implementation of any of these suggestions. Sorry, I'm not letting them off the hook. You can, that's your call. But if a corporation or an individual fails to take preventative action that could avert a disaster then they should be held responsible.

[Beck_isright]

"Are the airlines responsible for the first trade center bombing?"

Did an airplane crash into the basement of the WTC in 1993? Uh, no. So that's a red herring of a comparison. Bzzzt. Try again.

"What if these guy would have dispersed chemicals using crop duster or blown up a nuke plant?"

And what does this have to do with airport security which they trained the employees for and hired in 2001 up to September 10?

"Would the airlines have been responsible for those actions?"

Only if they owned the crop duster.

"The responsibility rests with the many government agencies that let our people down."

The responisibility is shared. Don't just lump everything on the government. This was a joint responsibility. You are way, way too soft on people who were responsible for security. And your comparisons are total bovine scattalogy.

[MonroeDNA]

Unions sink economies.

Nobody deserves an average of $120,000 per year to pull levers and unload boxes from whipw (LA Longshoremen).

Let's see the pay and benifits of the flight attendants. Average pay, hours worked, perks.

[Mulder]

"Blaming the Flight Attendants" is nonsense. The numbers simply don't add up.

Let's suppose that the average FA makes $1000 a week ($52 K a year-- maybe a little high but it keeps the math simple).

Also suppose that each FA works 4 days a week and does 2.5 flights per day for a total of 10 flights. That's $100 a flight per FA. Figure 4 FA's per flight, and you get $400 to staff a plane with Flight Attendants.

Assume 100 passengers, and that is $4 per ticket goes to pay your FA's. The proposed pay cut would result in a savings to the company of less than $1 per ticket.

If a company is running on that thin a margin, they're in trouble anyway. If they can't find another way to save $1 per ticket, they're in trouble as well.

Blaming the worker-bees for the problem is absurd.

[MonroeDNA]

You dude, you have a friend here.

Give it to them good!

[MonroeDNA]

What are the real figures? Sure don't see them here.

[Mulder]

When you consider that they only work 12-15 days per month and have SPECTACULAR free/low cost travel perks, they're downright overpaid.

The other side of the story is that they are away from home 12-15 days a month, are stuck in plane for 8+ hours a day when working, and don't get paid when there is a delay (at least that's what a United stewardess told me).

As with any job, it has it's benefits, but to suggest the worker-bees in any industry are overpaid is just silly.

If you want "overpaid" look at the salaries of senior managers and the like.

[sinkspur]

The airlines strongly opposed profiling because they "feared" it would cause lawsuits from potential customers.

And the government didn't?

If you think Bill Clinton's FAA would have profiled at airline gates, you're dreaming.

So, Arabs were allowed by the FAA, and boxcutters were allowed by the FAA. Tell me where the airlines screwed up.

If the airlines had profiled to the point of keeping these Arabs off planes, you would be at the head of the line bitching and bellyaching about Americans losing their rights.

[honway]

cooperating with the FAA, FBI, CIA, etc.,

What fantasy world are you living in? Khalid Mohammed was the mastermind of the Middle Eastern participation in the OKC bombing. The FBI covered up the participation of John Doe 2 a.k.a. Hussein Al Hussaini and his other Middle Eastern participants including Khalid in the OKC bombing and now you want to point the finger of responsibility at airlines for a national security failure?

Absent the FBI cover up of the Middle Eastern participation in OKC, 9-11 would be just another date on the calender, because the War on Terror would have started on April 19,1995.

I guess you are in the "public" sector.

[MonroeDNA]

"to suggest the worker-bees in any industry are overpaid is just silly. "

Should lever-pulling longshoremen in LA get an average salary of $120,000.00 a year?

Not suggesting those "worker bees" are overpaid. Stating it, as fact.

[Mulder]

Too many pansies out there afraid to fly?

I don't a SINGLE person who is "afraid to fly" as a result of 9/11.

But I know of HUNDREDS, like myself, who simply refuse to fly because of the police state mentality at the airports.

Until they start treating us like Free men and women, instead of slaves in some turd-world country, I will continue to avoid flying.

Also, I'm not going to fly until they respect my Right to fly armed.

[MonroeDNA]

So what's the average salary of these Flight attendants, and what are the hours, shifts, and what are the perks?

Gee, somehow, we don't see this. Just percentages.

Show me the money!

[Mulder]

Should lever-pulling longshoremen in LA get an average salary of $120,000.00 a year?

If someone is willing to pay them that much, then I guess so.

As for myself, I'd happily pay an extra $4 for an airline ticket (assuming my other conditions for flying are met) to see 4 hot babes in tight skirts who smell nice, smile nice, and look nice.

Some things in life are worth the price, and I can't think of too many better bargains than paying $4 to flirt with and stare at 4 women at 30,000 feet.

[sinkspur]

Blaming the worker-bees for the problem is absurd.

You left out benefits, such as:
Vacation pay
Mandatory corporate contributions to pension funds
Night pay (yes, FAs get extra for working at night)
Seniority Pay (yes, FAs get extra for every year over 10 that they've worked at a particular airline).

You need to take a senior FA's salary ($45-50K) and do your calculation.