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Question about Op. Infinite Freep

Posted on 04/13/2003 12:50:50 PM PDT by abercrombie_guy_38

I am planning a freep against the commies in NYC when they have their Conference Against War, Colonial Occupation and Imperialism. I've come across some difficulties.

The head of the FR chapter in the Tri-State area (New York) sent me FRMail and told me that I shouldn't go along with my march because it requires permits, I shouldn't march near other protesters, and because FREE REPUBLIC DOESN'T ENCOURAGE COUNTERDEMONSTRATIONS. He had a pretty poor attitude.

Now, what is the purpose of Operation Infinite Freep? That is encouraging counterdemonstrations, correct?

If someone could answer those questions, it would help.

If I need permits and all that, I'll be happy to get them in order for my voice to be heard, whether or not someone agrees with what I'm talking about.


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KEYWORDS: faq; infinitefreep
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1 posted on 04/13/2003 12:50:51 PM PDT by abercrombie_guy_38
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To: abercrombie_guy_38
FReepers are working to ensure that these communist organized (A.N.S.W.E.R.) demonstrations do not go unanswered. Patriotic Americans are countering these misguided terrorist supporting leftists wherever and whenever they show up. Form a group, grab your signs, unfurl the flag, and prepare to support your country!

Seems you got it right.

2 posted on 04/13/2003 1:01:03 PM PDT by mdittmar
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3 posted on 04/13/2003 1:01:17 PM PDT by Support Free Republic (Your support keeps Free Republic going strong!)
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To: abercrombie_guy_38
Don't misquote me, abercrombie. I have a pretty bad attitude.
4 posted on 04/13/2003 1:24:55 PM PDT by firebrand
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To: firebrand
Your reply to my post was appalling. It was rude and is not what I've come to know from the majority of people on Free Republic.
5 posted on 04/13/2003 2:25:18 PM PDT by abercrombie_guy_38
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To: abercrombie_guy_38
" FREE REPUBLIC DOESN'T ENCOURAGE COUNTERDEMONSTRATIONS. "

Oh yes it does (yes, we do encourage it). It is the essense of 'freeping'.

Show the Leftists the Truth, anywhere and everywhere you can.
6 posted on 04/13/2003 2:43:23 PM PDT by WOSG (All Hail The Free Republic of Iraq! God Bless our Troops!)
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To: abercrombie_guy_38
You do need a permit. In NYC, the police will not let your group get too close to the A.N.S.W.E.R. crowd.

I think the person that sent you the FReepmail was wrong. The DC Chapter counterprotests all the time. We did one yesterday as a matter of fact.

7 posted on 04/13/2003 5:16:47 PM PDT by sauropod (If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy...)
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To: abercrombie_guy_38
Go get your permit, Rally your FReeper FRiends, and HAVE AT THOSE LEFTISTS!!!

One FReeper is worth a hundred leftists idiots. Get out there and steal their thunder! I'm rooting for you. I would love to see some pictures of your counter protest. They call it FREEPING! All the Best

8 posted on 04/13/2003 6:00:07 PM PDT by Trteamer (Drill A.N.W.R., Eat Meat, Wear Fur, Drive an S.U.V., Own Guns, Vote, FReep Leftists.)
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To: abercrombie_guy_38
Greetings from Louisville, KY. Trteamer is right. Just grab a flag, make some signs and if you can't get any friends or family to go with you then go by yourself. Also I checked the NY FReepers page and saw you're not on it yet. The NY FReepers have a FReep planned May 3-4. To Access the "FReepers in NY" page just click "State Pages" in the left hand column on the FR home page then click "Set my location". Enter "New York" and you can network with other NY FReepers. Good luck and FReep on!
9 posted on 04/13/2003 6:47:21 PM PDT by BlueOneGolf (3rd Infantry Division: "Rock of the Marne!")
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To: abercrombie_guy_38
It depends on what your goals are. If you want to
stage a rally for the purpose of getting your message out and positively portrayed to thousands or even millions of people whose minds you have a chance of influencing, plan your own rally on a day of your own choosing.

If you want to strike out against the lefties, give them a little what-fer, then plan a counter rally. However, don't think you're going to change their minds and don't expect to be positively portrayed in the media. It can happen, but don't expect it.

The chapter leaders discussed this issue and though there were opinions on both sides, the general consensus was to encourage stand alone rallies.

The reasons for this are;

1. A shot at getting better media. In the past, when the lefties protested, their numbers were much larger and the press always noted the discrepancy, in a condescending way. Second, the leftist media fawns over their protestors and sometimes it's hard to get their attention or any camera time. This seems to be changing some, but I wouldn't say we're over the crest yet.

NOTE- One thing is for sure, if you counter protest you KNOW there will be media present.

2. Bigger crowds. Say what you want, but the spectre of violence from these jackals is always present. Some people just don't want to be put in that position and will stay away, expecially if they have families. I was stunned to read one chapter encouraging people to come to their counter rally and to bring their children, telling them it was perfectly safe, then on the same thread talking about the violence they had been subjected to at previous rallies. If any of those kids got hurt, lawyers had all they needed for a negligence lawsuit, posted right here on the Forum.

3. Liability Exposure. There are hot heads in every crowd and you can't control them all. Putting some FReepers and hard core anarchists in the same area can create an inflammatory situation. You can be assured that if something happens, the participants will be long gone while the names are on that permit forever. Organizers cannot be held responsible for many incidents, but, even a dumb lawyer could make the case that putting these two hard headed groups of people in the same vicinity was an "invitation for violence" and that it might have been planned that way. I would also add that some of the rhetoric that shows up on this board isn't exactly going to help your legal defense, and you can be sure the worst comments will end up as "exhibit c".

Those are the three main reasons, media, attendance and liability exposure, that the Free Republic Network and the Chapter Leaders in the Leadership Council decided to recommend stand alone rallies as opposed to counter protests for it's members and affiliates.

But, it's only a suggestion, not a rule. If the local chapter does not want to be involved in staging a problematic event, that is their decision. However, if they have issues and you can't get them on board, I imagine Jim might have some reservation about it being marketed on the Forum or having the FR name attached to it. If I was heading a chapter in a city where a non chapter member was holding an event that I had serious doubts about or conflicted with chapter policy, I wouldn't want them attaching the FR name to it and possibly putting the chapter in the center of sh_t storm if something went wrong.

Like it or not, in the areas they are located, chapters have a long term interest and investment in the public and professional perception of the FR name. They have a right to protect it. You may do your event, skeddadle and they will be left holding the bag and cleaning up any mess that might happen.

The Free Republic Network will support members positions in disagreements where they feel the FR name may be compromised or chapter policies severely compromised.
10 posted on 04/13/2003 10:01:25 PM PDT by Bob J
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To: firebrand
ping
11 posted on 04/13/2003 10:04:05 PM PDT by Bob J
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To: abercrombie_guy_38
BTW - I think you taking this issue public to be bad form. It obviously was intended to embarass a chapters leaders and create a maelstrom of criticism (from some who would rather knock heads now than help build an organization and reputation for the future) in order to intimidate them into accepting your proposal.

Personally, if I were them, I'd now keep you at the end of a ten foot pole.
12 posted on 04/13/2003 10:10:05 PM PDT by Bob J
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To: Bob J
I had a real concern that I wanted addressed by more than one person. I wasn't planning on embarassing anyone...maybe to prove someone wrong, but not to harass or embarass them.

Mike
13 posted on 04/14/2003 2:20:26 PM PDT by abercrombie_guy_38
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To: abercrombie_guy_38
I've changed the location. Instead of rallying right beside the commies at their conference, I'll rally directly in front of International A.N.S.W.E.R.'s world headquarters.

We'll follow all rules and we'll let them pass and get in and out of the building. We won't harass them or whatnot. I think a silent rally would be even better. Just signs, flags, and nothing else.

Can someone e-mail me about this matter if you are familiar with getting permits from NYC? My e-mail is abercrombie_guy_38@yahoo.com
14 posted on 04/14/2003 2:23:10 PM PDT by abercrombie_guy_38
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To: abercrombie_guy_38
I had a real concern that I wanted addressed by more than one person.

In the future, my suggestion is to privately freepmail the people from whom you would like a response. Posting this the way you did made it look like you were having a hissy fit.

There are chapters who will still conduct guerila type freeps, and others who won't but may have some members who would like to partake. This issue was soberly and respectfully discussed. Several chapter leaders were quite adamant in not wanting to put their members in any kind of danger, even the appearance of such.

I wasn't planning on embarassing anyone...maybe to prove someone wrong, but not to harass or embarass them.

Fair enough. However, there is no "right" or "wrong" position here...some people do, some people don't. It's a personal preference.

15 posted on 04/14/2003 3:51:44 PM PDT by Bob J (Freerepublic.net...where it's always a happening....)
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To: abercrombie_guy_38
This may be a FReep the local chapter would want to get on board with. Plus, it has media opportunities (Taking the protest to the protestors...etc.)

16 posted on 04/14/2003 3:53:04 PM PDT by Bob J (Freerepublic.net...where it's always a happening....)
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To: abercrombie_guy_38; sauropod
The DC Chapter counterprotests all the time.

That we do, Sauropod! I don't know NY and I couldn't tell abercrombie_guy_38 how good (or not-so-good) the NYPD is at protecting a counterprotester's right to free speech in a large crowd.

Contrary to what some have implied, the DC Chapter leaders spend a great deal of time and thought in deciding on locations for our counterprotests, doing recons of possible sites, taking into consideration the safety of all participants; and any implication otherwise is unbecoming and unprofessional, and ignorant of facts.

I have brought both of my kids to various counterprotests, and I wouldn't have done that if I wasn't absolutely certain that they would be as safe as anywhere else in DC. (hahaha) Also, the old saying "protect the women and children" means something to my compatriots here in DC.

My suggestion to you would be to take a look at the lay of the land in the area you are thinking of doing your FReep. Walk along the route and think about stuff, ability to retreat to a safe spot - in the event somebody on their side does something stupid, an area where the cops can have some room to form a protective perimeter around your group and still leave you room to do your thing without crowding one another, areas where you can confront them with some safe distance between you and them - with you on high ground is best... your voices will carry, and they would have to really exert themselves if they attempted to overrun your location.

It may also be helpful to talk with some of the local constabulary, to get their feeling about where they may feel that you can most safely and effectively do your thing.

We've been fortunate to get CSPAN to cover our shoestring-budget, "sparsely attended" rallies twice. One was a counter-rally and the other was a stand-alone rally. I would say that we get equal amounts of press coverage for counter and stand alone events; but for either one, we have had to really hustle to get the word out to the press in advance - and remind them again at the last minute.

It's a lot of work to get something organized, and you can never make everyone happy. Take your time, think things through, invite interested folks, remind them of the rules for protesting (basically: no violence, no threats, no racism, treat all law enforcement officers with respectand obey their directions).

Just some stuff to think about. Don't sue me if it doesn't work out. I didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn last night, so I'm no expert. ;-)

JVb and Doc, any other helpful FReep suggestions for abercrombie_guy_38?

17 posted on 04/14/2003 8:23:18 PM PDT by tgslTakoma (DC Chapter - Rallying against C.A.N.S.W.E.R. and FOR OUR TROOPS since September 29, 2001)
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To: Jimmy Valentine's brother
I meant to ping you guys to my comment above. Any suggestions for abercrombie_guy_38?
18 posted on 04/14/2003 8:26:20 PM PDT by tgslTakoma (DC Chapter - Rallying against C.A.N.S.W.E.R. and FOR OUR TROOPS since September 29, 2001)
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To: Bob J; diotima
You make some excellent points here.

Sorry i missed FRNLC last night. Was filing taxes :-(.

19 posted on 04/15/2003 3:44:50 AM PDT by sauropod (If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy...)
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To: tgslTakoma; abercrombie_guy_38
I think a recon of the area in front of the C.A.N.S.W.E.R. headquarters is an excellent suggestion.

Also, perhaps writing up a press release, e.g. Local grass roots FReepers silently protest communist organizers...

20 posted on 04/15/2003 3:48:18 AM PDT by sauropod (If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy...)
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