Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

House Majority Leader Signs On To Linder’s Bill Abolishing the IRS
United States Congressman - John Linder ^ | April 3rd, 2003 | Congressman John Linder (R-Georgia)

Posted on 04/13/2003 12:23:25 PM PDT by Remedy

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 101-120121-140141-160161-163 next last
To: rolling_stone
Agree with you. FairTax allows politicians to retain some modicum of power. Flat tax really doesn't.

I'm more for Flat that Fair at this point. A 23% sales tax, plus 8% in WA state, plus property tax, and I'll be paying more in tax than now.

FairTax, however, may end up being massively deflationary if some of the recovered savings are passed to the consumer. B2B purchases are not subject to FairTax - this means business will get a huge windfall.

Could work, in my opinion, but 23% on purchases seems pretty steep compared with a 13 to 17% flat tax.
121 posted on 04/14/2003 11:40:16 AM PDT by RinaseaofDs
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: Willie Green
"A landlord/investor can exploit the business exemption of NRST a"

Hmmm, how can the average homeowner become a business investor? :)

122 posted on 04/14/2003 11:43:49 AM PDT by Freedom2specul8 (Please pray for our troops.... http://anyservicemember.navy.mil/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

Comment #123 Removed by Moderator

Comment #124 Removed by Moderator

To: RinaseaofDs
I would support either a flat or NRST, either is miles ahead of what we currently have, IMO current system is very inefficient, unfair and gives too much power to politicians to social engineer and profit from their power. IMO simplification is long overdue, and people need to be better informed as to how much they actually are paying in taxes and to be able to figure out the correct amount themselves. Any transition period will have problems, and will probably result in "chaos and a quagmire" like the Iraq Liberation, (according to the all knowing media)but IMO it is time to bite the bullet and try something different. Some will win and others lose money under any change, but all will win with simplification and efficiency.
125 posted on 04/14/2003 11:58:06 AM PDT by rolling_stone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 121 | View Replies]

To: farmfriend
This is an interesting tax concept! I will take a closer look at the new policy book and see what the Grange's stand would be.
126 posted on 04/14/2003 12:02:34 PM PDT by Harleys Mom (I remember 9-11-01)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: ThinkDifferent
A 13% increase in costs in exchange for elimination of income and payroll taxes is a great deal.

That would be one opinion, but a 13% increase in price + 30% tax.

The sales tax is revenue neutral, there is no elimination of tax, only a shift of the burden.

127 posted on 04/14/2003 12:21:58 PM PDT by lewislynn
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 112 | View Replies]

To: rolling_stone
JMO it is done in order to compare apples to apples and not apples to oranges.....

JMO it, like the "sales tax" tag is done to deceive.

128 posted on 04/14/2003 12:25:10 PM PDT by lewislynn
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 115 | View Replies]

To: Remedy
I'm all for a sales tax -- after all, Florida has run entirely on sales tax for all my life -- but you do need an agency to collect and enforce it.

And there are a lot of details to work out. Do you tax food, used goods, garage sales, barter?

129 posted on 04/14/2003 12:28:46 PM PDT by js1138
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: rolling_stone
As I stated their NET wage would be the same (100%)as currently, the payroll taxes are eliminated by NRST.

The argument that employer paid payroll taxes aren't part of the wage is a battle yet to be fought.

130 posted on 04/14/2003 12:33:47 PM PDT by lewislynn
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 117 | View Replies]

To: rolling_stone
This clearly to me illustrates that eliminating corporate taxes will allow for more profits or lower prices, amazing isn't it, just worded differently. As for lower compensation to employees because of the corporate taxes, that shows that eliminating corporate taxes would allow employees to be paid more (or reduce prices).

I'm curios to know how you can expect both lower prices and increased profits...Untill now you claimed the production chain will be less due to no income tax and the result of which would result in 20 or 30% lower prices, now you're saying it could mean "more profits"...Meaning forego the lower prices for higher profits...That's exactly what I've been saying, you can't guarantee nor predict what the outcome would be.

As a business man, (and I am) knowing there are a bunch of people fooled into thinking they have a pocket full of tax free money, the last thing I'd do is lower my price.

If price was the only factor in competition people wouldn't buy a Mercedes when they could have all the same features in a Hyundai for less money.

131 posted on 04/14/2003 12:52:31 PM PDT by lewislynn
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 116 | View Replies]

To: lewislynn
The sales tax is revenue neutral, there is no elimination of tax

Exactly. How taxes are collected is entirely separate from how much is collected. There's no question that the federal government should tax less and spend less. But there is a need for some taxation, and the current income tax is just about the worst possible system.

132 posted on 04/14/2003 1:12:06 PM PDT by ThinkDifferent
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 127 | View Replies]

To: lewislynn
As I stated their NET wage would be the same (100%)as currently, the payroll taxes are eliminated by NRST.

The argument that employer paid payroll taxes aren't part of the wage is a battle yet to be fought.

It doesn't matter whether it is part of the wage or not, the employee does not receive the money only the benefits. The benefits are included in the cost of the new NRST and payroll taxes are moved from income collection to consumption collection.

133 posted on 04/14/2003 1:15:04 PM PDT by rolling_stone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 130 | View Replies]

To: js1138
Do you tax food, used goods, garage sales, barter?

Yes, no, no, and no. Check out the FairTax site, these issues have been considered.

134 posted on 04/14/2003 1:15:55 PM PDT by ThinkDifferent
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 129 | View Replies]

To: Harleys Mom
See post # 114

I got is straight from the source.

135 posted on 04/14/2003 2:46:59 PM PDT by farmfriend ( Isaiah 55:10,11)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 126 | View Replies]

To: Remedy
How about this:

The Federal Government determine's a state's tax liability based on the population of each state.

Each state government raises revenue however (income, property, sales, what-have-you) and sends their percentage on to the Fed.

This is taxation with representation.

136 posted on 04/14/2003 2:56:07 PM PDT by Liberal Classic (Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentis telum est.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lewislynn
This clearly to me illustrates that eliminating corporate taxes will allow for more profits or lower prices, amazing isn't it, just worded differently. As for lower compensation to employees because of the corporate taxes, that shows that eliminating corporate taxes would allow employees to be paid more (or reduce prices).

I'm curios to know how you can expect both lower prices and increased profits...Untill now you claimed the production chain will be less due to no income tax and the result of which would result in 20 or 30% lower prices, now you're saying it could mean "more profits"...Meaning forego the lower prices for higher profits...That's exactly what I've been saying, you can't guarantee nor predict what the outcome would be.

I said or not and, and I also did not say prices would drop 20 to 30% that was what Jorgensen said. I said :As for payng the exorbitant sales tax, it would be on products or services that are reduced in price by competition and lower costs.....not so exhorbitant after all IMO if prices dropped only 15-20%....

As for predicting prices, my comment was Simple economics& history reasonably predicts what the competitive market will do. No I cannot guarantee what prices will do but with substantial experience in pricing and competition, I do have a few clues. I explained in depth my thoughts as to why prices would drop.

As a business man, (and I am) knowing there are a bunch of people fooled into thinking they have a pocket full of tax free money, the last thing I'd do is lower my price.

I previously addressed this issue, you are free to price your product or service as you wish, but the market will decide what the majority will do. High profits will result in more competition (price competition or more suppliers) and resulting lower prices and profits in a free market. As I said before a transition period will take place until equilibrium is reached...Supply & Demand.

If price was the only factor in competition people wouldn't buy a Mercedes when they could have all the same features in a Hyundai for less money.I never said price was the only factor in competition, you are confusing price competition with competition. My statement was Competition, supply & demand is what determines prices, whether there is an income tax or consumption tax or no tax.Certainly there are significant other factors than price, quality, service, durability, esthetics etc, that are a part of competition. Price competition is at it's purest when identical products or services are available from numerous similar suppliers.

As for a Mercedes and a Hyundai, I don't consider them close competition, but a Porsche or Lexus could be. Apples and Oranges. Once again I suggest you check out the link below for info on equilibrium:

http://www.digitaleconomist.com/equilibrium.html

I appreciate you taking time to debate the NSRT and point out your concerns. This time of year, unfortunately makes me wonder why the heck the government (people) allow the current system to continue. Many wasted hours and much money thrown away in non-productive tasks that IMO needs to be changed.

137 posted on 04/14/2003 2:59:56 PM PDT by rolling_stone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 131 | View Replies]

To: rolling_stone
It doesn't matter whether it is part of the wage or not, the employee does not receive the money only the benefits.

I happen to agree (as does the law) that the employer portion of the payroll tax is a tax on the employer. But it's been drummed into the heads of employees that that is part of their wage package...Like I said, if this tax comes to pass (it won't) the battle for that FICA tax money is yet to be fought.

The employee's could claim since the new tax burden will be shifted directly on them, it has to include the money their employer used to pay for their SS benefits, that they should be entitled to that money payed on their behalf....My bet is they'll win the war.

138 posted on 04/14/2003 3:14:58 PM PDT by lewislynn
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 133 | View Replies]

To: ThinkDifferent; js1138
Do you tax food, used goods, garage sales, barter?

Barter?...Yes.

`(f) BARTER TRANSACTIONS- If gross payment for taxable property or services is made in other than money, then the person responsible for collecting and remitting the tax shall remit the tax to the sales tax administering authority in money as if gross payment had been made in money at the tax inclusive fair market value of the taxable property or services purchased.

139 posted on 04/14/2003 3:19:57 PM PDT by lewislynn
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 134 | View Replies]

To: The Old Hoosier
because people won't notice the money gone from their paycheck.

Most people do not notice the amount of tax taken out of their paychecks now. I would guess that they would notice if the prices of goods start to spiral up due to increases in the so-called Fair Tax. Well, maybe not!!

140 posted on 04/14/2003 3:24:46 PM PDT by technomage
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 101-120121-140141-160161-163 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson