[tpaine]

Going too far is siding with the -- -- gun-grabbing socialists.
117 -cin-


Which, - at FR - is your 'circle', many of them posting here on this thread, in total agreement with 'big government' policies.
The hypocricy of your faction here has no end.

[Torie]

Some of us make no apologies for favoring big government in certain spheres such as defense, and more than a few of us relatively big government in others, such as preserving the social safety net (although perhaps not quite as big as present, but still big). Deal with it. You can say we are ersatz conservatives, but then a case can be made that perhaps you might be one, since preserving the social order (some might consder that a conservative tenet) is not a high priority for you.