Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

I found this to be a most thought provoking read.
1 posted on 04/12/2003 7:49:12 AM PDT by vannrox
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies ]


To: All
Strong Conservative Forums Help Prevent Candidates Like This From Winning Elections

Finish Strong. Donate Here By Secure Server

Or mail checks to
FreeRepublic , LLC
PO BOX 9771
FRESNO, CA 93794

or you can use

PayPal at Jimrob@psnw.com

STOP BY AND BUMP THE FUNDRAISER THREAD-
It is in the breaking news sidebar!

2 posted on 04/12/2003 7:50:18 AM PDT by Support Free Republic (Your support keeps Free Republic going strong!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: vannrox
I like flat taxes. Head taxes.

A professor I once had was an advisor to Pinochet. He said they used to have head taxes in certain parts of Latin America. If you didn't pay, they would cut your head off.

I think we could get by with $1000 per head per year. That's about $300bn. Most of it goes to defense.

3 posted on 04/12/2003 8:00:53 AM PDT by ScholarWarrior
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: vannrox
On the other hand, the bottom 50 percent of income earners make 13 percent of the money, but shoulder just 3.9 percent of the tax burden.

Hmm, I have a few questions. Is the payroll tax, sales tax, property tax (possibly included in the rent) included in this tax burden? If it is not what whould be actual number otherwise?

Now, about "income earners" - are there other sources of money that "earning income"? What about profits or capital gain? How the relations of tax burden would look if other items were included?

Those 50% who "make 13 percent of the money, but shoulder just 3.9 percent" MUST spend most of their money on necessities. Necessities can be seen as analogy to the costs for the corporation. If we count the whole earned income as a profit it is not right. The real long term base for taxation can be surplus income/profit, otherwise the tax becomes the tool of destruction. So if we calculate what percentage of surplus income/profits that lower 50% make we might have a different picture.

5 posted on 04/12/2003 8:25:12 AM PDT by A. Pole
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: vannrox
Replacing the graduated/progressive income tax with a consumption tax such as the NRST would set off a chain reaction of benefits.

1. Boom the economy because productivity is not taxed; no tax on profits or hidden taxes/fees.

2. IRS threats and coercion eliminated and replaced with, "if you don't want to pay the tax, don't buy the item."

3. 20% to 30% decrease in retail prices that facilitates spending and partially offsets the retail tax. Which will also...

a. Make U.S. made products more competitive when sold within the USA against foreign imports.

b. Make U.S. made products more competitive in the World market.

4. People will know how much leviathan government is really costing them, resulting in...

5. Shrinking government to it's constitutional function to protect synonymous private-property rights and individual rights from domestic and foreign criminals while upholding the sanctity of private contracts.

6. Creates jobs in the USA.

7. Freedom in United States leads to other countries doing similar or risk its citizens fleeing to United States to increase productivity here while enjoying the fruits/prosperity of their labor.

More information at Americans for Fair Tax on the fairtax.org Web site.

* * *

What do you get in return for your tax dollars?

Issue 101

How is it that people and society in general have prospered and increased their well being for decades yet the politicians and bureaucrats say we must have another 3,000 laws and regulations each year on top of the 100,000+ laws already on the books... That without them people and society face "disaster". People and society have done quite well without next year's 3,000 new federal laws and regulations. Why all of a sudden can people and society not continue to do quite well without them? The fact is, they'd be better off without 99% of them.

So who really benefits from 3,000 new laws and regulations each year? -- not to mention state laws and regulations. Politicians and bureaucrats. They create boogieman problems and with a complicit media towing their boogieman problems cast a net of false fear and unwarranted despair in people.

Quite literally, they create problems where none exist. They're sick in that they chose to frighten people and foist false despair on them and do that to collect their unearned paychecks. Their job security is predicated on deceiving as many people as possible.

Fully integrated honesty is key. That we have the government we have that has gone so far off course from the government the founders created is a product of irrationality and dishonesty. Changing the laws via the "system" is almost completely useless. Politicians create dozens of unconstitutional laws before even considering repealing just one unconstitutional law. That is not a system -- it's a quagmire of deception, irrationality, fraud and abuse.

Voting for the lesser of evils always begets evil. How can so many people thinking they're right be so wrong?

Wake up! Politics is not the solution -- politics is the problem.

Who are the producers?
Who are the parasites?
Praise the value producers --
Ostracizing the parasitical value destroyers.


6 posted on 04/12/2003 8:31:58 AM PDT by Zon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: vannrox
I've been wondering when I would start seeing Tax related threads. The war has taken the heat off the issue of unfair taxation.

We can't let our domestic policies be overshadowed by our foreign policies or the enconomy will eventually preclude the latter from succeeding.

11 posted on 04/12/2003 8:53:47 AM PDT by RockyMtnMan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: vannrox
But to those making over $100,000, such benefits are tax deductions. Since those making under $10,000 don't pay federal income taxes (save for the payroll tax, which I'll get to), such benefits amount to handouts.

This is a ridiculous statement. The point of the deductions is that the powers that be are recognizing (1) the tax rate is too high (2) that deductions enable the government to acquire power by directing specific types of spending (3) the complex code feeds an entire industry of tax specialists and civil servants.

16 posted on 04/12/2003 9:40:42 AM PDT by peeve23
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: vannrox
Taxing something will make there be less of it; subsidizing something will make there be more of it.

What, then, is the effect of taxing wealth and subsidizing poverty?

22 posted on 04/12/2003 12:08:26 PM PDT by supercat (TAG--you're it!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: vannrox
...if Americans were allowed to own and invest their payroll taxes, the gap between rich and poor would shrink -- and at a far faster rate than tax redistributionists could ever achieve.

I agree in total. But I find his calculations on percent of taxes paid by the various classes to be quite distorted. But what is most missing is any reference to accurate figures on which classes pay a greater percent of their expected income in taxes. I use the word 'expected' because that is the amount reasonably calculated, anticipated and settled upon at the point of exchange. If these figures were used, one would find that lower income earners, pay a higher percent in taxes, than do higher income earners (and that does not include sin taxes).

24 posted on 04/12/2003 2:20:25 PM PDT by jackbob
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: vannrox
Speaking from personal experience, I used to be one of those people paying the top rate. I got burned out on working so hard and having so much taken from me. This year I expect to earn exactly $0, and next year I'm planning on keeping my income under $20k.

I've had it with working my fanny off just to have it all taken in taxes. From here on I'm going to slack off, and just work just enough to pay the bills. My goal is to earn so little that the government ends up sending me free money, rather than stealing half of everything I earned (I used to live in California, with a %10 top income tax rate).

From here on my motto is "let someone else pay the taxes", because I'm not going to expose myself to income taxes any longer. Whatever the threshold is of taxes, I will earn $10 less than that. I got rode hard and put away wet one too many times. No more.
26 posted on 04/12/2003 2:31:00 PM PDT by Billy_bob_bob ("He who will not reason is a bigot;He who cannot is a fool;He who dares not is a slave." W. Drummond)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: vannrox; ancient_geezer; Bigun; Taxman
Interesting... the national sales tax bill in Congress right now has 25 cosponsors.

Fundamental tax reform is at our doorstep.
33 posted on 04/12/2003 6:27:49 PM PDT by Principled
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: vannrox
bump
34 posted on 04/12/2003 6:28:49 PM PDT by Lady Eileen (The rights of the people come from God. The powers of government come from the people.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: vannrox
Read my profile. I've been thinking along similar lines for years now.

37 posted on 04/12/2003 8:27:04 PM PDT by SamAdams76 (California wine beats French wine in blind taste tests. Boycott French wine.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: nickcarraway
ping
54 posted on 04/16/2003 9:10:26 PM PDT by Desdemona
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: vannrox
Real simple solution to this "ever growing" problem. End the income tax and go to a consumption tax.
58 posted on 04/17/2003 3:59:48 AM PDT by MissBaby
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: vannrox
You get more of what you subsidize, and less of what you tax.

The US heavily taxes wealth-creation and hard-work... and subsidizes the non-working and the non-productive (including paying farms to not produce).

66 posted on 04/18/2003 12:18:27 PM PDT by Teacher317
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: vannrox
"Americans would get a check from the federal government that would bring them to a fixed income level. "

Yeah. That's what America is about: A guaranteed income! NOT!
89 posted on 04/21/2003 10:21:47 PM PDT by PatrioticAmerican (If the only purpose of assault weapons is to kill lots of people quickly, why do police have them?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: vannrox; newgeezer
He's right. And he might add that recent studies have shown the very filthy rich to disproportionately vote for Democrats.

If that's the case then what good does it do a Republican politican to push to cut taxes to them. It only makes them look like they are helping out their good ole boys and seals the bogus media definition of a Republican.

Spoken as a person who doesn't pay any taxes.

101 posted on 04/25/2003 10:04:31 AM PDT by biblewonk (Spose to be a Chrissssstian)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson