Looters Ransack Baghdad's Antiquities Museum

Reuters ^ | April 12, 2003 | Hassan Hafidh

[WOSG]

"I can't help but wonder if a large part of these looters aren't the old regime in plain clothes, destroying evidense and gathering a nestegg."

You dont have to wonder at all. Remember that many baghada civilian residents left baghdad. the ones who stayed were either fedayeen or too poor to

My guess is the poor of baghdad were looting saddam's palaces for vases and rugs and ACs, while the former baathist militants went for bigger prizes and more damaging ones to make US military look bad. Then they showed up yesterday near palestine hotel to 'protest' the lack of order... on monday these guys will go back to 'enforcing' the laws that they broke last week.

What a scam!

[WOSG]

I am very skeptical about this story. The claim is that the looters took 170,000 items from the museum. Assuming each looter took 10 items would mean that it would take 17000 looters in the museum. Just a little bit far fetched. I would like to know how many of these artifacts were actually in the museum prior to our occupation of Baghdad. I would be willing to bet most of these items were removed prior to the occupation and are presently sitting in the homes of Saddam supporters or in Syria.

I am skeptical too... if this was such an important event of 'looting' WHERE IS THE VIDEO OF IT? Why cant we see the shots of hordes of Iraqis going in and out of this museum wiht all this treasure? At leat the looting of Mosul central bank was caught on tape. ... This might instead have been an organized heist, not general looting. Or an exagerration by museum officials (saddamite sympathizers) trying to give US a black eye over minor/petty thefts ... what the heck can a poor iraqi do with some ancient tablets? hardly a useful thing.

Many of them may indeed have been put in vaults, stored away, etc., and that would have been prudent given the bombing of baghdad for 3 weeks! IMHO, the media is being far too uninquisitive about this story!!!

[WOSG]

"The most valuable artifacts were put into a vault that was broken into."

Uh huh. Impoverished Baghdad resident looters become instant safe-crackers once saddam is overthrown... your story makes no sense!

Again, this story needs media digging. IMHO it's a tall tale as is. more to it than just 'looting'.

"To suggest the place had been pillaged by corrupt Saddam operatives before US troops got there is ludicrous,"

then who pray tell did it? Where did they come from? who were they?

[WOSG]

There was no negligence.

It is unreasonable to expect all property would be protected during a period of unrest and during a period when our troops were busy simply securing the city at all ... NOW, with the city more secured, and help from Iraqis on policing, we can expect some of that.

[tsomer]

The Law Tablet of Hummurabi is missing, thus the title.

Fortunately, for civilization's sake, we have Cliff Notes!

[Slyfox]

Looters Ransack Baghdad's Antiquities Museum

As if Saddam hadn't already done it.

[WOSG]

"Then why are they guarding oil fields? "

Saddam promised to blow the oil fields up and succeeded in a few cases. Our intervention saved Iraq's future and IMHO saved it from slipping back into tyranny further down the line... the oil money for Iraqis will make the transition to democracy easier and better.

Iraq has about 100 billion barrels of reserves - do the math - it is $3 TRILLION DOLLARS WORTH. We promised to secure this for the Iraqi's future. It not something we said about every piece of Iraqi property.

[WOSG]

"Furthermore, museums can't buy this stuff, because of the 1970 UNESCO resolutions on cultural property. That means it will end up in the hands of private collectors, much of it unavailable for scholars to research. " Well unesco should change their mind since it has such bad consequences.

[WOSG]

" I blame the Pentagon not the troops."

Iraqis were doing the looting, not the 'pentagon'.

It is morally repugnant to assign moral blame to those NOT doing the act while failing to assign blame to those who DID the act. If you want to blame ANYONE - BLAME THE LOOTERS, NOT ANYONE ELSE!
Get your facts straight!

"And I read in the Washington Post that they won't be able to get the vast majority of this stuff back. Just sickening."

Get a grip and quit reading media source that causes you to get sick, it's not good for your health.

[tsomer]

It doesn't appear to be worthwhile to argue with the Philistines.

So we're Philistines?

Let me tell you what Nietzche is purported to have said of Art Historians: "Eunichs guarding the harem."

[WOSG]

It's hugely important. It's central to civilization.

What is central to civilization is civilizing *ideas*.

A photocopy of the US Constitution is of MORE VALUE TO IRAQ"S CIVILIZATION than all the pottery of Sumeria. JMHO.

[PoisedWoman]

34987123 others on this long thread may have mentioned this, but I wonder why the curator isn't thanking the US for NOT bombing the museum. Lost and looted articles are at least in one piece and can be begged, borrowed, bought or stolen back.

[WOSG]

indeed the philistines are too happy to hear about 7 POWs freed and the children from Saddam's children's prison freed ... we have such low concerns and cant be high-minded enough to care about old pots.

[Fifth Business]

34987123 others on this long thread may have mentioned this, but I wonder why the curator isn't thanking the US for NOT bombing the museum. Lost and looted articles are at least in one piece and can be begged, borrowed, bought or stolen back.

Actually, of the 4,000 objects stolen from Iraqi museums after the first Gulf War, only 3 or 4 were recovered. What happens is they end up in the hands of private collectors or in the trash. Lacking a market (which is inevitable for all but the most priceless of the items), they throw them away. Probably because they fear consequences for the theft.

[Fifth Business]

Well unesco should change their mind since it has such bad consequences.

Really? Do you think relaxing the restrictions on museums buying pilfered items will reduce pilfering? Don't you think it might increase pilfering (that whole supply/demand thing)?

[PoisedWoman]

Since the looting was caught on tape, identities of the looters are known and they can be tracked down. Their photos can be shown on Iraq tv, rewards can be posted...all kinds of steps can be taken to get the treasures back.

I will not blame US troops for staying out of the art business. They had plenty to do...who knows, perhaps the marines assigned to the museum detail were killed by snipers on the way over. Ridiculous? No more ridiculous than the curator running around blaming us for what might legitimately be considered her own carelessness.

I hope to get to Baghdad as soon as it's safe, and am distressed that the museum has lost its treasures. However, the Iraqis had plenty of time to protect them. Hitler and the Nazis took exceptional care of German and European art, and pieces have turned up over the years in excellent condition.

Some Iraqi stuff is probably on eBay already or on its way to antiques roadshow. I don't mean this cynically. Collectors and dealers should keep an eye out and report stolen treasures to......to whom?

[Lauratealeaf]

This is from my husband who is a Colonel in the United States Army....

I have served as an officer in the army for 28 years. I have been in infantry, engineers and administrative. I served in Somalia and Kosovo. When you give me permission to allow your sons, daughters and spouses to catch bullets for other than victory than I will do so.

So far, the American people have stated unilaterally that the lives of our soldiers are only to be put in harms' way because of national interest. The sure way to defeat us is to give us conflicting orders and divided focus.

If you want to win a war, win it first and then concentrate on other issues. We can guard museums, and anything else but we should do so after we win the battle. The phase of the operations in Baghdad is the securing of the battle zone at the end of the destruction of the enemies major force. The guarding and security issues for the population come after the successful completion of this phase. ie..after the major threats have been neutralized.

To do so before this final phase would be to divide the combat power necessary and would cause additional casualties. This is all logic and has no emotion.

If however you complain loudly enough I am sure that you can get the national press and the international community to do exactly what we shouldn't do which is to divide our focus. In trying to satisfy the emotional and psychological concerns of all of the above we lost 23 soldiers and had Americans drug through the streets in Mogadishu.

As one of the soldiers who serve our country I will guarantee you that if you request it we will guard all the museums, all the police stations, all the hospitals, all the banks, all the furniture stores or whatever else you require. However, when they drag our bodies through the streets of Baghdad please don't act like you have no responsibility for our defeat.

[Torie]

When you find some evidence that the vaults were looted prior to the entry of American troops into Bagdad please feel free to post it. Until then, the evidence is to the contrary.

[Fifth Business]

Your husband sounds like a great guy and patriot.

But he should recognize that we DO have a divided focus. When Rumsfeld gave us the objectives for the war, he listed at least seven of them. That's divided. In fact, one of our focuses was to secure the oil fields, which we did brilliantly. I think we could have secured this museum had we wanted to and planned accordingly.

[Torie]

There was no negligence.

And then you posted that the story deserved more investigation, and yet you make a flat assertion. You need to be kept off any jury.