ELITE INFANTRY TICKETED TO TARGET TYRANT'S TOWN

New York Post ^ | 4/09/03 | LEONARD GREENE and MARSHA KRANES

[kattracks]

April 9, 2003 -- The elite 4th Infantry Division, newly arrived in the Gulf, is preparing for a major offensive against Tikrit - birthplace of Saddam Hussein and the place he'd likely go to seek refuge if he's alive.

The assault, slated for this week, will be led by the high-tech advance forces of the firepower-packed division, which is in Kuwait gearing up for the attack, according to military sources.

[peeve23]

I agree.

But that's not the division's fault. The blame belongs to Turkey, and somewhat to Colin Powell.

[arm958]

I think it's great that relatively unrecognized Divisions like the 3rd & 4th I.D. are getting the recognition they deserve. The 82nd and 101st, both great Divisions, have always been at the forefront of America's perception of the Army. However, it is the Third Infantry Division which has earned the lion's share of acclamation so far in this war. I've also been impressed with the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force. Despite being a little lighter in Armor than the 3rd I.D., their progression to Baghdad has been just as impressive.

As for elite, I'll just ignore that word. No One would have considered the Third Infantry Division elite a month ago, but who on earth is better?

[FreedomPoster]

>> I thought the press only used the word "Elite" when reffering to the Iraqi Republican Guard.

For a few weeks now, every time I heard some presstitute say "elite" in connection with "Republican Guard", I thought "effete".

[msru]

ELITE INFANTRY TICKETED TO TARGET TYRANT'S TOWN

Say that 5 times fast! LOL

[Magnolia]

I was wondering where they would be deployed. This seems like the perfect place. They're "fresh" troops itching to get into the battle. They can bring down any opposition in the north quickly. Maybe their delay was a blessing in disguise.

[Larry Lucido]

Thanks for the info. The 4t ID is a welcome addition to the battle, and will no doubt live up to the billing. I was beginning to think this was typical media overuse of descriptors to make expectations unrealistically high.

[CholeraJoe]

"We're starting the war from right here."

Brigadier General Theodore Roosevelt, Jr.
Assistant Division Commander 4th Infantry Division
June 6, 1944

[katana]

This may be the one engagement most likely to result in the dispersal of chem or bio weapons, perhaps especially directed at the Kurdish forces accompanying our troops. Tikrit is the base for Saddam's tribal loyalists and they will have good reason to avoid capture at all costs. In Syria the Baath Party is similarly organized around the Alawi tribe, so the fate of Tikrit will not go unnoticed in Damascus.

The capture of Tikrit has probably been ear marked for the 4th ID since the start and has only been delayed by the need to move them and their equipment from the Mediterranean to the Gulf. I'm more certain than ever that our guys are prepared, but am still hoping they take over that reported WMD storage site asap.

Either way, there are going to be an awful lot of very dead Tikritis within the next week or two. This one will probably be bloody.

[Marysecretary]

To rid the democrats of a big traitor in their midst???

[Future Snake Eater]

ELITE INFANTRY TICKETED TO TARGET TYRANT'S TOWN

Was this Variety's headline this morning?

[Semper Paratus]

This may be the one engagement most likely to result in the dispersal of chem or bio weapons,

Tikrit would be the demonstration city for MOABs then.

[Coop]

But that's not the division's fault. The blame belongs to Turkey, and somewhat to Colin Powell.

Oh, trust me. I was not blaming the troops for that mess.

[AAABEST]

I think it's great that relatively unrecognized Divisions like the 3rd & 4th I.D. are getting the recognition they deserve. The 82nd and 101st, both great Divisions, have always been at the forefront of America's perception of the Army.

The 3rd ID is based out of Ft. Stewart GA. They used to be the 24th ID, which was my unit during Gulf War I. They are well known (in the military) for being a top of the line desert mech unit, and spearheaded the incursion into Iraq in both wars.

The 82nd followed behind us in deuce and 1/2s and basically cleaned up our mess. Good soldiers but they're light infantry ground pounders, not very useful in long range desert fighting. They can't move as fast (on the ground) and they don't have the technology or equipment to get that type of job done.

They're a well light trained unit that has a purpose, but they ain't Mech Warriors. Incidentally, the 82nd and 24th were both part of the 18 Airborne Corps. I don't think the 3rd is. Maybe someone else knows.

[peeve23]

The 3rd is the reflagged 24th, so it remained in the 18th Abn Corps with the 82nd and the 101st. The 18th Abn Avn Brigade makes the 82nd a formidable fast moving unit....not quite as fast as the 101st. The 101st AirAsslt is more formidable than any tank division on earth, including our own. A battalion of Apache's is worth a division of tanks in terms of combat power.

The real point is that when we combine our forces, Army, AF, Navy, Maries, SpecOps...when they work together...there is nothing on earth that can withstand their combat power.

It is the most powerful military in the history of the world.

[WhiskeyPapa]

What does the 4th ID have that the 3rd doesn't already have access to?

A fancy digital battlefield kit in each tank:

1] "The M1A1 has been the main battle tank of the US Army since the 1980's. There are a number of variants, with the armor protection being the reason for the different variants. The M1A1, or "slick" does not have depleted uranium armor. 1-68 Armor, 3 BDE, 4th Infantry Division, is one of these units. The M1A1HA, or "Heavy Armor" is the main battle tank of the US Army today. This tank has depleted uranium armor, but in all other aspects is the same as the M1A1. There are also M1A1HA+, and M1A1HA++, which are M1A1HA tanks with additional armor protection. Every unit outside of III Corps (3rd ACR/4th ID/1st CAV) are equipped with some variant of the M1A1 tank.

[2] The M1A1D, or "Delta" tank, is a M1A1HA tank with digital communication capability. The Force Twenty-One Brigade and Below (FBCB2) digital overlay system is the main addition to this series of tank. This system is critical, as it allows commanders to visually track units over the digital map, and also allows the dissemination of information between echelons. The M1A1D tank is in use by 1 BDE, 4th ID only. There was a plan to equip more units with M1A1D's a while back, but budget adjustments and cuts have limited this purchase.

> [3] The M1A2 is the first tank to incorporate a number of new technologies. This tank first came into the inventory in the early 1990's, and the Saudi Arabians also purchased a number of these tanks. The major differences between the M1A1 and the M1A2 are second generation armor protection, the Commanders Independent Thermal Viewer (This allows the tank commander to identify and acquire targets, then he can slew the sight to the gunner, who then picks up the scan. The tank commander then continues to scan for more targets. This is known as the hunter-killer concept.), the Inter-Vehicular Information System (a pre-cursor to the FBCB2) and some other minor additions such as a digital compass. The M1A2 is used by the 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment, but the Army has been trying to get rid of the tank as many components are not compatible with the latest technologies or the vendor support has disappeared.

[4] The M1A2SEP is the latest Main Battle Tank the Army has procured. It was first introduced to the Army in the mid-1990's. The M1A2SEP features a number of improvements over the M1A2, such as improved and additional armor, a 2nd Generation CITV (it has 2nd Generation Forward Looking Infrared (FLIR) sights), and a new engine. The engine is more fuel efficient, but is still a turbine. The 2nd Generation FLIR is amazing. It is a great piece of equipment that is light years ahead of the 1st Generation equipment. There is additional, and improved armor, which increases both the protection of the crew and the weight of the vehicle."

http://www.d-n-i.net/fcs/comments/c477.htm

Walt

[WilliamWallace1999]

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I also thought the original M1A1 had a 105 mm rifled main gun and the M1A2 has a smooth bore 120mm that fires a larger fin stabilized sabot-discarding penetrator of depleted uranium as the tank killer round.

[WhiskeyPapa]

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I also thought the original M1A1 had a 105 mm rifled main gun and the M1A2 has a smooth bore 120mm that fires a larger fin stabilized sabot-discarding penetrator of depleted uranium as the tank killer round.

I think it was the original M1 that had the M68A1 105 MM gun. -That- gun was of British design. The 120MM is a German design. That was intrduced in the M1A1. Both guns fire the "sabot" type round, which is basically a big steel/DU dart going about a mile a second.

Walt

[The Lone Ranger]

Task Force Ironhorse....get some!

[archy]

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I also thought the original M1A1 had a 105 mm rifled main gun and the M1A2 has a smooth bore 120mm that fires a larger fin stabilized sabot-discarding penetrator of depleted uranium as the tank killer round.

Not quite. The M1, of which 3,273 were produced for the Army, was originally fielded with the 105mm gun; those tanks have all or most all been rebuilt to the improved IPM1 or M1A1 standard, fitted with the 120mm M256 main gun, or may be rebuilt to the M1A2 SEP configuration- the upgrade program was cancelled but the M1A2's success in Iraq could change the picture of things; and a new Honeywell/G.E. engine for the Abrams series, developed as a common powerplant intended for the M1A2 and the now-cancelled Crusader 155mm Self-Propelled gun is also soon to be eventually refitted to the Abrams series tanks.

More on the M1, M1A1, M1A1 FEP/M1A1 HA, M1A2 and M1A2 SEP tanks *here* and *here* and *here* and *here*

-archy-/-

[alethia]

Perhaps the second brigade's destination/mission is Damascus...