Bush: 'We are committed to the Road Map'

Jerusalem Post ^ | Apr. 8, 2003

[Asher]

Apr. 8, 2003

Bush: 'We are committed to the Road Map'

By THE JERUSALEM POST INTERNET STAFF

President George W. Bush said Tuesday that the US and Britain "are committed to the Road Map toward peace."

Speaking at a joint news conference with British Prime Minister Tony Blair in Hillsborough, Northern Ireland, Bush added: "Now this process must be carried forward."

Moments earlier Blair also reaffirmed Britain's commitment to the plan, which calls for achieving Palestinian statehood by 2005.

"It's a hopeful time. I believe we can make progress," Bush said.

Bush further said he is pleased with the designated Palestinian premier Mahmoud Abbas.

[honway]

Funny you should think of castration of Arabs as a solution

It wasn't my idea. It has been reported that castration has been discussed in the Knesset as a solution to the Arab population problem.

[honway]

Indeed I do have a US passport, do you?

Yes.

Have you ever served in the military?

Yes.

There are many in the U.S. who claim dual citizenship. Based on your screen name, I thought you may be someone maintaining dual citizenship.

The oath is absolutely clear. You can not receive a U.S. passport, maintain citizenship in another country without breaking an oath. If you maintain citizenship in only one country, then I am not questioning your oath. Do you have dual citizenship?

[carton253]

It has been reported that castration has been discussed in the Knesset as a solution to the Arab population problem

Proof please.

[honway]

Cannon fodder is what they are bred for.

When you make a dehumanizing generalization like the one above, I would suggest defending your words with your views. Blaming the words of individual Arabs for your generalization of an ethnic group is poor form, in my opnion. "Arabs made me say it" is a little weak.

[honway]

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=118898&contrassID=2&subContrassID=1&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y

Israeli-Russian journalist calls for castration as anti-terror step ,BR. By Lily Galili

[carton253]

It has been reported that castration has been discussed in the Knesset as a solution to the Arab population problem

Israeli-Russian journalist calls for castration as anti-terror step

Your post was that castration had been discussed in the Knesset as a solution to the Arab population problem…

Your proof is an article out of today's Ha’aretz, which states that an Israeli-Russian journalist calls for castration as anti-terror step.

I’ll point out the inconsistencies for you…

An Israeli-Russian journalist writing an article in a newspaper is not the Knesset discussing it… You do see that don’t you.

Furthermore, you reported that the Knesset was discussing it as an answer to the Arab population problem. The journalist was discussing it as a way to stop terror.

Now, did the Knesset discuss it? If they did, could you provide proof of the discussion and the result of the discussion?

[carton253]

You are out of line, yet again.

You do not get to pick and choose who responds on this forum, on the thread, and to your posts.

Your posts are free-game to anyone on this forum.

If you don't like the rules, then go play in another sandbox with the rest of the 5 year olds.

[honway]

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/israel-palestine/2001/0725apar.htm

Excerpts:

Israeli law-makers, intellectuals and even government officials are becoming increasingly open about exploring "prospective solutions" for Palestinian demographic growth in Israel and the occupied territories, with the suggested solutions ranging from collective deportation to institutionalised apartheid.


The number of Jews, he added, would grow to 6.4 million in 2020, with the corresponding figure for non-Jews topping 8.8 million.

Arab Knesset members denounced the meeting as "naked racism," and a " big scandal in a state that claims to be civilised and democratic. It is racist, just racist, there is no other name for it," said Arab Knesset member Hashem Mohamed, who boycotted the meeting.

Knesset member Isam Makhoul of the Democratic Front for Peace and Equality also castigated the meeting. "If anything like this were discussed anywhere in the world, it would be condemned as brash racism, but here, in a state that claims to be the only democracy in the Middle East, we see dignified lawmakers candidly discussing ways and means to curb the birth rate of a given segment of society on the grounds that they don't have the right race and religion. It's racism, it's disgusting."

[honway]

It has been reported that castration has been discussed in the Knesset as a solution to the Arab population problem

It appears my imperfect memory resulted in a statement that is stronger than I can prove.

A more correct statement would be "we see dignified lawmakers candidly discussing ways and means to curb the birth rate of a given segment of society on the grounds that they don't have the right race and religion" in the Knesset.

I can not prove castration ever came up in the Knesset, I apologize for the overreaching statement. Thanks for calling me on it.

[carton253]

Again, you are not being honest… (either that or you don’t comprehend what you read)

You said that castration has been discussed in the Knesset as a solution to the Arab population problem…”

Your first attempt to slander Israel did not work and neither does your second attempt.

Let’s look at the article…

On Monday, 16 July, the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defence Committee held an "exploratory session," in which participants discussed "the Arab demographic threat" and the "dangers facing the survival of Israel as a Jewish state."

So a meeting did take place in the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defence Committee regarding the “the Arab demographic threat” and the “dangers facing the survival of Israel as a Jewish state.”

The meeting was attended by several experts, including Haifa University's Arnon Sofer, who advocates "radical solutions for solving the looming demographic problem" facing Israel.

Arnon Sofer’s “radical solutions” are discussed. Now, notice that Arnon Sofer is from the Haifa University and not a member of the Knesset. That’s important.

Now, the article has two members of the Knesset, one Arab and one Jewish who were appalled at the discussion.

Now, watch this… the writer introduces a third party… here we go…

A few months ago, a number of Israeli strategic planners, former army generals and scholars met behind closed doors in Hertzlya in northern Israel to discuss "adequate solutions for dealing with the demographic threat."

This group of people were the ones who brought up “forced sterilization”… not the Knesset.

So, was castration discussed in the Knesset as a way to solve the Arab population problem? So far, the answer would have to be NO.

Unless you have more proof? I would be interested in seeing it if you do.

[carton253]

A more correct statement would be "we see dignified lawmakers candidly discussing ways and means to curb the birth rate of a given segment of society on the grounds that they don't have the right race and religion" in the Knesset.

No, that would not be a more correct statement, but just posting the same untruth in different words. The two articles you posted do not say that at all...

Your above quote is a total misrepresentation.

As my tagline says... you are free to form your own opinions, but not your own facts... and that is exactly what you are doing. You are just making things up willy-nilly and posting them.

The issue wasn't how to curb the birth rate... the discussion was what to do about the demographic threat facing the state of Israel today.

Big difference...

[carton253]

These last posts of your's make Israel out to be the Mengeles of the Middle East. That is a huge distortion.

Here is the official stand of the Israeli govenment... Ariel Sharon is in favor of a Palestinian state, but not under its current leadership and not while terrorists have free reign from the PA to attack Israel whenever they wish.

Sharon's problem with the Road Map is that it forces a Palestinian State upon Israel within 5 years without dealing with the terror issue, or the long term goals of Arafat to use the Palestinian State to further Palestinian goals to eradicate the state of Israel.

Now, you can ransack the internet to find the fringe elements within Israel that support a number of things... you will find them... that fringe exists in every culture...

But to take the fringe and make it the mainstream Israeli belief or even Israeli government policy is disingeneous and down right dishonest.

[honway]

Your first attempt to slander Israel did not work and neither does your second attempt.

In addition to "transferring" a significant number of the non-Jewish population out of "Eretz Israel," participants also reportedly discussed other alternatives, including institutionalised apartheid (whereby non-Jews would be granted civil rights while denied political rights), forced sterilisation, induced immigration (through economic pressure), and "other solutions."

Nothing I could write is more enlightening than this quote."other solutions" do concern me, however.

[honway]

But to take the fringe and make it the mainstream Israeli belief or even Israeli government policy is disingeneous and down right dishonest.

Did you miss this part of the article on castration?

"However, what is even more surprising than the fact that the piece got published, is that the paper did not receive any responses from readers or public representatives of the Russian community. It should be noted that the paper is one of two leading dailies of the Russian community in Israel"

[carton253]

But this quote is assigned to private citizens (a think tank) and not the government...

A think tank does not make government policy.

In your posts, you keep saying it is the government. It is not the government.

Are there talks in Israel about deportation, yes. But, it is not the government's official position.

But, I read the article, and the little quote that has you up in arms is hearsay at best...

Again, hearsay is not official government policy.

[carton253]

Stop it before you give yourself a nervous breakdown...

I didn't miss the part of the article on castration.

I don't agree with the journalist and would never support the issue. But it was a journalist who wrote an article in a newspaper.

Oh my, no one called to complain... and of course, to you that proves that evil really lurks in the heart of the Jews.

This article proves nothing. Now, it may get you to increase your supply of tin-foil...but not me.

I have more faith in the Israelis than you do (since you seem so quick to assign them only evil intentions).

And like I said, if you want to ransack the internet for every fringe element... then be my guest.

But if you post it on Free Republic as Israeli policy or from the Israeli government, I will call you on it.

[honway]

My primary concern is this. Many appear to me to be willing to equate America's War on Terror to Israel's War on Terror.In my view, as reflected in the Road Map initiative, these two wars should remain separate.

The simple reason is, the U.S. War on Terror has a defined objective and success is achievable.

I am not convinced Israel can win the Israeli War on Terror with the current policies in place and I don't believe America is prepared to go down the road necessary for victory over an enemy who will only accept the destruction of Israel as a solution. I am not sure you can win such a war and I do not want Americans dying in a war that can not be won, unless it is for vital U.S. interests.

[carton253]

The two wars on terror are the same. The same enemy, the same goal. Israel and the West eradicated. The Islamic Fundamentalist will accept nothing less.

The terrorists did not declare war on Israel, and war on America... they declared war on a culture that has overborne, overwhelmed and overtaken Islam. They declared war on the West. They see Israel as an outpost of the West... a cancer on holy Arab land.

You could remove Israel from the land, give it to the Palestinians, and the threat to America would not go away. It would increase but the Arabs would see that we will not fight for what we believe. Do we believe in Israel? Yes... but not enough to fight for it. And not enough to allow Israel to fight for herself.

It's important that you see the war in its proper context. The issue isn't America, Israel, the West Bank, or Tel Aviv... The issue is Islam.

That truth isn't going to go away because you abandon the Jews to whatever fate the terrorists have in mind... and you can't justify it away by making Israel the enemy.

The Arabs claim that the only reason there is not peace in the Middle East is because Israel occupies Palestinian lands... excusing the very aggression that delivered the lands into Israel's hand... and the very acts that continue against Israel.

As long as the terrorists threaten the West, the US is threatened. Whether the threat is against Israel, France, Poland... it threatens us.

You have spent the majority of your time on this thread bashing Israel as if they were the devil incarnate. They are not. They are a people, who 60 years ago, went into Hitler's oven because no one would stand up to Hitler.

Now, they believe they are facing the same threat. They have been invaded 3 times... they loose their children to terrorists bombs... in the 1990's they tried to make peace with the Palestinians through appeasement and it got them nothing...

Now, the Road Map tells Israel that they must accept a terrorist state on their borders so that the West can appear to be "fair and balanced" to the Arabs. The West believes that when that happens, the terror will cease. Which shows that the West has no idea why the terror began in the first place.