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To: DBtoo
I don't believe the Dutch were complicit in the extermination of the Jews.

You are correct that not all Dutch were complicit in the Shoah. In fact, many individuals (who happened to be Dutch) literally risked their lives to save Jews (one needs only to read "The Diary of Anne Frank" to know this). However, the Dutch were also the greatest source of SS members (per capita) in all of Europe, excepting only Germany itself and Austria. Like any other country or other large group of people, it had (and has) good and bad people. Just as the Germans were and are not uniformly evil, neither are the Dutch (or any other nation) uniformly good.

While I agree that not all of the people of a country can be held responsible for the actions of a few, Germany has a very interesting culture - interesting in a bad sense. I don't recall the film (I think it may have been "Schindler's List"), but there was (relatively recently) a film that was shown in Western Germany regarding the Shoah. One American was there and sat in silent horror as virtually the entire audience (including many learned and cultured people) cheered when Jews were murdered and expressed sorrow or anger when Nazis were killed. No, not all Germans are like this, but the fact that something like this could happen in view of that nation's sordid past is extremely disturbing.

I'd also like to relate a personal anecdote. I visited a buddie of mine who was in the Army and based near Munich in 1990. He was a bit late picking me up at the airport, and as I waited I saw literally dozens of people come into the terminal with their dogs to pick up friends or family. One day later, we were at a restaurant and a family walked in with its dog (which sat under the table and never uttered a peep or begged for food). I asked my friend about the health code and why this was allowed, and he said that the Germans are very attached to their dogs and that this is, as a result, considered normal. I thought to myself "OK, fine, its a bit strange to me, but that's their culture" - and I didn't give it another thought. Until, that is, my friend and I visited Dachau on the way back to the airport a couple of days later. After leaving there I remarked to him "Isn't it strange that this culture, which so cares for its dogs that it brings them everywhere, even where food is served, could have committed genocide as part of its official policy?" He had no answer, and neither do I. German culture is utterly alien to me - I just can't fathom such a dichotomy of values.

Oh, BTW, I do blame a large number of Germans for their country's present foreign policy - after all, Schroeder won re-election in November on an explicitly anti-American platform. I'm aware that many Germans voted against Schroeder and his party, but more voted for him.

47 posted on 04/08/2003 9:06:59 AM PDT by Ancesthntr
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To: Ancesthntr
film that was shown in Western Germany regarding the Shoah. One American was there and sat in silent horror as virtually the entire audience (including many learned and cultured people) cheered when Jews were murdered

One advantage of frequenting FreeRepublic is that one can observe how questionable stories enter the mainstream by being told and retold. Several months ago, an essay by William Grim (a Canadian, not an American) contained an anecdote in which the writer claimed to have sat in a German movie theater showing a film with a WWII/Holocaust setting. According to Grim, the audience tittered and laughed (not cheered) while scenes of persecution of Jews were being shown.

One Freeper remarked that it was possible that most of the audience sat in stunned silence while some found no other outlet for their discomfort than nervous laughter. That is assuming that the anecdote is even true. I tell you categorically that no significant segment of the German population is proud of the Holocaust. Nearly all are deeply ashamed of it. Grim is a writer known for inaccuracies and a chip on his shoulder when it comes to Germans. I don't know why. He is not himself Jewish.

This sort of irresponsible journalism ("scratch a German and you'll find a Nazi") takes away from the very real issue of the one-sided anti-Israel coverage in the German media (worse than in the U.S., for example). But to claim that modern Germany has (secretly or not so secretly) rehabilitated the Nazis and what they did is total bunk.

55 posted on 04/08/2003 1:11:10 PM PDT by tictoc
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To: Ancesthntr
The Dutch were very fond of animals as well and people would bring them into stores and restaurants there too. While we were there, we got the sense that the Dutch were still hating the Germans as a result of that occupation. Never did I hear some Dutch were complicit, though that doesn't mean it wasn't so. I went to Germany, the strangest thing I experienced was the custom that you must finish ALL the food on your plate or you are considered very rude.

I read on a thread here that the movie "The Piano" was shown in Germany, and the Germans in the theater laughed and acted like goons. I find that hard to fathom, unless they were uncomfortable with the scenes, or most of the audience were Arabs. Personally, I would have walked out as I can't stand any portrayal of cruelty. Too, it could be an urban legend of sorts, at least I hope so, as that is terrible

I'm just alarmed at the number of people today who hate this group or that group. The anger pitch is at a very high level lately, and that is not a good sign. I'm also disheartened to learn that too many Israeli Jews have such a seething hatred for gentiles. I had no idea I am suppose to be a natural enemy because of my DNA. However, when living in Holland I took Dutch classes with some very catty English girls who hated Americans. I guess these days everyone has some group they hate. But it can come as a shock to see such blind hatred among some.

57 posted on 04/08/2003 1:35:36 PM PDT by DBtoo
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