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Sleeping US Marine accidentally killed by his own gun
Reuters
| 4/03/03
Posted on 04/03/2003 1:20:18 PM PST by kattracks
Sleeping US Marine accidentally killed by his own gun
AS SAYLIYA, Qatar, April 3 (Reuters) - A sleeping U.S. Marine was killed by his gun in central Iraq when the weapon accidentally discharged, the U.S. military said on Thursday.
The Marine's M-249 Squad Automatic Weapon fired one round into his chest, U.S. Central Command said in a statement from its war headquarters in Qatar.
The accident took place on Wednesday night near the city of Kut, the statement said.
The soldier's name was not disclosed, but Central Command said he was with the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force's 1st Marine Division.
"The Marine died honourably in the service of his country," the statement said.
04/03/03 16:14 ET
TOPICS: News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: accident; banglist; casualties; embeddedreport; iraqifreedom; semperfi
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To: kattracks
21
posted on
04/03/2003 1:37:16 PM PST
by
glock rocks
(pray for our men and women in harm's way -- God bless America)
To: kattracks
Hmm. First thought is a suicide, but who knows...
22
posted on
04/03/2003 1:37:45 PM PST
by
ApesForEvolution
(Yes, let us allow the economies of gerdung, frunk, mexiztlan, chirushcom and canadastan to wither...)
To: jdege
The only "safe" way to handle an open-bolt firearm is to close the bolt on an empty chamber. But to not do that in a combat area is a reasonable choice after balancing the risks, not the act of negligence it would be in other circumstances Good point on balancing the risks. I knew an MP who said you got it drummed (OK, beat) into your head to "unload and show clear" and then use a clearing barrel. It became second nature.
23
posted on
04/03/2003 1:39:22 PM PST
by
Fury
Comment #24 Removed by Moderator
To: All
All fun aside, this really is horrible. God rest his soul.
25
posted on
04/03/2003 1:46:44 PM PST
by
al_c
To: al_c
INAPPROPRIATE!!!
26
posted on
04/03/2003 1:48:03 PM PST
by
faithincowboys
(God Bless Our Troops!)
To: faithincowboys; admin
I agree. Admin, please remove my #24.
Sincere apologies,
al_c
27
posted on
04/03/2003 1:49:43 PM PST
by
al_c
To: kattracks
"The Marine died honourably in the service of his country"Prayers for him and his family. God Bless
28
posted on
04/03/2003 1:51:01 PM PST
by
deadhead
(God Bless Our Troops and Veterans)
To: RetiredArmy
That's a SAW - Squad Automatic Weapon, not an M-16 or a pistol. It fires from an open bolt, which can slip and accidently discharge.
To: earlyapex
AWFULLY strange! If a crew served weapon, why was the gunner asleep??? And I'm sure the Marines do as we did in Nam...you stake your weapon and damn well no one sleeps in FRONT of it! Very strange indeed!
30
posted on
04/03/2003 1:54:21 PM PST
by
NMFXSTC
To: admin
Thank you.
31
posted on
04/03/2003 1:57:21 PM PST
by
al_c
To: Rocky Mountain High
It is an open bolt weapon. It has a high rate of safety incidents due to it'a being open bolt and the need for constant training with it to remain fresh with the handling.
32
posted on
04/03/2003 1:57:23 PM PST
by
flyer182
To: PackerBoy
I don't know much about weapons like this, but didn't it have a safety?
Yes, it had a safety, but you need to understand the difference between an open-bolt and a closed-bolt weapon.
In a closed-bolt weapon, the bolt moves forward, strips a round off the magazine or the belt, and pushes it into the chamber. The operator then pulls the trigger, and the hammer falls. The sear (the piece of metal that is moved by the trigger) is holding back the hammer - a small piece of metal with a small spring pushing it. The safety prevents the sear from moving, should the trigger be pulled.
In an open-bolt weapon, the bolt moves forward, strips a round, chambers it, and immediately fires. There's never a time when a round is left in the chamber more than momentarily, before it is fired and extracted, and the bolt moves to the read.
The point behind this is that machineguns are designed to fire continuously, and they get very hot. Hot enough that a round left in the chamber will be ignited by the heat.
The same thing will happen with a closed-bolt weapon, if you fire enough rounds, of course. I was taught that an M16 would be at risk of cook off after 140 rounds, fired rapidly. But the M16 isn't intended to lay that kind of high-volume fire, the M249 is. So the M249 has interchangable barrels and an open bolt. The M16 does not.
In any case, in an open-bolt weapon, the sear isn't holding back the hammer, it's holding back the entire bolt gainst the power of the mainspring. It's not a lightweight, finely machined piece of steel, operating under moderate pressure, it's a big chunk of steel with a lot of pressure behind it.
So it's a lot more likely that an open-bolt weapon will discharge when kicked, than will a closed-bolt weapon. A cocked open-bolt weapon, with the safety on, is a lot less safe than a cocked closed-bolt weapon, with the safety on.
And the next level of safety down, closing the bolt on an empty chamber, is both more work to do, and more time consuming to bring the weapon into action, than with an open-bolt weapon.
With an M16 weapon, you can remove the magazine, work the charging handle to extract the chambered round, reinsert the magazine, and you have a weapon that is completely safe. To bring it into action, you work the charging handle to chamber a round, and away you go.
With an M249, you need to remove the belt, then let the bolt go forward. To bring it into action, you need to pull back the bolt, then replace the belt. It's much slower to do - and I can easily see why someone in combat would choose not to do so.
33
posted on
04/03/2003 2:04:26 PM PST
by
jdege
To: jdege
The M-249 SAW is a belt fed weapon that fires from the open bolt position. It may be officially listed as a crew served weapon, but I do not know of a unit that employs it as such. I have only seen it employed as an individual weapon (it weighs approx 24lbs + ammo).
That being said, something doesn't sound right to me. Sure, we're talking about a combat environment, but it doesn't take but a couple of seconds to put a SAW into action that is "aircraft loaded". When I had to hump the SAW, SOP was to clear the weapon, ride the bolt forward, lay the rounds in, and close the feed tray cover. This way, if it was go time, all I had to do was to place the weapon on "fire", yank back on the charging handle to charge it, push the charging handle forward to lock it into position, and let the good times roll.
I know my way around a SAW, and I NEVER trusted the safety on it or any open bolt weapon. Period.
Tragic, nonetheless.
To: kattracks
The press should have the decency to not report this story. It makes the poor guy look like an idiot. Note how they left out the details of how this guy had try to get two hours of sleep after staying awake for the last 36 jammed into the back of an amtrack with 14 other Marines and all their gear.
35
posted on
04/03/2003 2:34:19 PM PST
by
SENTINEL
(Proud USMC Gulf War Grunt !)
To: SENTINEL
Great point!
To: *SemperFi
R.I.P marine.
37
posted on
04/03/2003 2:39:33 PM PST
by
anymouse
To: kattracks
With apologies to those that might be offended, this might be a polite way to explain away a suicide... it's not uncommon, in the field, when a young man is far away from home, and is stressed and overtired... and especially if he happened to get a Dear John or other bad news. The military doesn't like to classify deaths as suicides....they tend to become contagious in a military unit, and it calls the effectiveness of the leadership into question also. This was suggested to me by a friend and it certainly is a possibility.
To: kattracks
3 yrs 82dAbn., shoot on a regular basis (~5000 rounds 45 acp alone previous summer) and I still managed to put a bullet into myself.
Kid was tired, stressed...How many things like this happened at Tarawa/Iwo/Saipan that we never heard about?
Anybody who mocks this marine can Kilo Mike Alpha.
God rest his soul.
To: kattracks
The less said the better.
He served our country to his dying day.
Come to think of it, if someone carved "He served our country to his dying day." on my tombstone it would be just fine with me.
40
posted on
04/03/2003 7:53:34 PM PST
by
LibKill
(MOAB, the greatest advance in Foreign Relations since the cat-o'-nine-tails!)
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