David Bloom on MSNBC now!!! - Russians, French Supplying NightVision + Military Advisors

MSNBC ^ | April 2, 2003 | David Bloom, MSNBC embedded

[Cachelot]

I find it particularly amusing that Jordan, a US ally, is standing here "drawers down" to the world with the discovery of tons of their military equipment, openly labeled so

Remind me. What kind of Jordanian mil equipment, exactly? Originating where? How old?

As it is, there's ample evidence of Russian equipment being given to Iraq within the last couple of years, certainly after the UN sanctions.

And then you have the adamant resistance to any action against Iraq, by Russia, France and Germany. What do you think that signifies?

[Cachelot]

Most of what is being discovered is old equipment

The Kornets too? And then you have the missiles found early on dated, I think, 2001....

[mikhailovich]

Kornets via Syria or Russia? Do you have the answer? Then why so quick to judgment? That's my point.

[Natural Law]

I hope all of our future opponents receive equally useful advice from the French & Russians.

[Cachelot]

Kornets via Syria or Russia? Do you have the answer?

No. But they are undeniably Russian equipment. We'll find out how they got to Iraq, eventually. Just as we'll find out how crates marked "Jordan" got there (actually, I think this might be a relic from the Iraq/Iran war if it's old stuff).

Then you have the curious case of antiship cruise missiles that seem to have come from Russia in 2002 (not 2001, my bad) - and also some larger Russian missile stuff found along with the cruises.

Then why so quick to judgment?

Not exactly calling a judgement - yet. But the Russian stand on action against Iraq makes me very, very suspicious.

[archy]

Look how much American material has ended up in the hands of the ChiComs.

It's pretty hard to make a case that the U.S. government itself wasn't involved in the transfer of US materiel and technology to the Chinese when their sales representative was residing in the White House at the time.

[archy]

Kornets via Syria or Russia? Do you have the answer? Then why so quick to judgment? That's my point.

It's not even certain that the missiles used were Kornet AT-14s, since the missile strikes involved hits to the rear engine compartment of the Abrams tanks resulting in *mobility kills* of their turbine engines, rather than the top-attack flight profile that would be expected had the 9M133/Kornet-E missile had been used, much more likely to have resulted in crew casualties.

What'll be MUCH more telling is whether or nor Saddam's forces have 9M133 *Refleks* 125mm guntube-launched missiles for use in the Iraqi T-72 and 125mm gun upgunned T55 and T-69 tanks, and whether the even newer KBM 9M123 Khrizantema system capable of firing six-kilometer-range supersonic missiles, incorporating both radar and laser command guidance receivers is in use by the Iraqis, perhaps on a limited real-world *field test* empirical tryout basis.

I'd reserve judgement until that question, at least, is definately answered....<p. -archy-/-

[lavrenti]

The Kornets they likely got from the Syrians, but they so far have not shown the ability to use anything better (if they do indeed have more advanced equipment).

I'd suspend judgment regarding direct Russian involvement, because I believe Syria acted as the middle man in various illegal arms transactions.

The report regarding the boxes of grenades stamped "Ministry of Defense—Jordan" is disturbing, but one has to consider there are a number of individuals in that nation with access to military material who hold Saddam dear to their hearts.

However, when one keeps in mind the totality of it all, it does not matter what rests in the Iraqi arsenal—we're stomping them into the ground in a most brutal and complete fashion.