[PaulJ]

...Gibson went so far as to claim, in a March 14 interview with an American Catholic cable network, that "the other world" was "warring" with him ..."

That's not what he said. He said the "other world" was warring, a biblical reference to the war going on between heaven & hell. He did say he thought there might be forces trying to prevent him from making the movie, but we heard this same thing during the making of the Exorcist (as well as several teenage slasher movies) and I don't recall reading anyone making light of those claims.

[KeyWest]

"Look at the fruits," Gibson had said, "dwindling numbers and pedophilia."

There is a pun in there somewhere.

[Notwithstanding]

This "jounalist" tries a little too hard. I am suspect of people who pretend that Vatican II was absolutely evil and that Mass must be in Latin.

BUT - I am even more suspect of a "journalist" who pretends that the Church is in great shape as a result of Vatican II.

Bravo for Gibson's movie. Bravo for Caviezel (devout Catholic actor from "Count of Monte Christo" who is playing Jesus).

[Ff--150]

The moral for Gibson is obvious: if you are going to be a combatant, expect to be shot at from time to time

Battle lines are drawn; put on the whole Armour that you are able to withstand in the evil day.

[TightSqueeze]

I am not sure how the knuckle-head neo-cons are going to handel this crisis in faith, Gibson is one of their saints. They will have to come to grips with Gibson's hair-brained interpretation of the bible that differs from the message they receive locally which claims that G-d an American warrior, could be trouble at the trailer park.

[AD from SpringBay]

...the movie has been directed, co-written, and largely privately financed by Gibson

That says more than the rest of the article. May the story of Jesus be told and retold, forever.

[Iris7]

...(people) are entitled to their opinions but....their views are no more valid than anybody else's.

Ah, yes, the cry of the "modern" moral relativist, "Opinions are like a$$holes, everybody has one and they all stink." "There is no right or wrong, mearly opinion, which we call 'personal values'". The ancients called a person rejecting the possibility that virtue was possible a "cynic". The refusal to distinguish between right and wrong they called "licentiousness". The Hebrews and Christians knew this to be Sin. As the old saying says, "the more things change the more things stay the same."

[tuckrdout]

It sounds like a very good movie to me. I heard Gibson's interview on Fox about it.

Here is what he said:

"But, when you look at the reasons behind why Christ came, why he was crucified, he died for all mankind and he suffered for all mankind, so that, really, anybody who transgresses has to look at their own part or look at their own culpability.

It's time to sort of get back to a basic message, the message that was given. At this time, the world has gone nuts, I think. Christ spoke of faith, hope, love and forgiveness. And these are things I think we need to be reminded of again. He forgave as he was tortured and killed. And we could do with a little of that behavior."

I am looking forward to seeing it. Then, I will judge it. All this talk is to keep people away. I urge all believers in Jesus Christ to go and support these kinds of movies, and not believe the anti-Christian hype....those who are not Christians are the ones calling it "anti-semetic"; to keep Jews away; and they imply that it promotes Catholic beliefs to keep Protestants away! Don't fall for it..

[MrLeRoy]

attendance levels at Mass now are about what they were a century ago (high attendance levels in the decades before 1960 were the anomaly)

The second clause does not follow from the first; you'd have to study attendance levels over a few centuries to determine what is the norm. And even if high attendance levels in the decades before 1960 were the anomaly, it in no way follows that those high attendance levels were a causeless fluke whose end was also causeless.

[kitkat]

As far as the Tridentine Mass is concerned, we have to take it in the perspective of the '60s.

After WWII, enormous changes occurred in the population of this country. Servicemen returned home, married and had families. The trek to the suburbs began in earnest in order to find housing.

Catholic schools in the suburbs were vastly overcrowded. Where it had been traditional for a Catholic family to send their children to their local parish school, most were now in public school.

Because of this there was not enough instruction on the meaning of the Latin Mass. By the '60s, a vast number of Baby Boomers were fleeing the Church. The English Mass was a godsend. It allowed far more understanding of the ritual.

Actually, it should have happened a generation sooner.

By the way, the real reason the Mass had been said in Latin is simply because Latin is a dead language and not subject to changes in meaning. It would seem to me that as long as the Latin is kept in a vault somewhere and used as a reference to make changes in the English Mass, then the English Mass will always conform to the original meaning of the Mass.

As a Catholic, I can only wish that when we threw out the Gregorian chant, we had adopted some more stirring hymns to replace it. Someone commented that the Catholics got an English Mass and the Protestants got all the good hymns. LOL!

[txzman]

Vatican II reasoned that the adoption of Latin as the universal language of the church in the fourth century was merely a concession to the times and that by conducting Mass in the language of the participants they could take a more active part in the ceremony.

Umm, this also conveniently ignores the fact that the Roman Catholic Church burned as "heretics" all those who tried to put the Bible into English for the layman.

Keeping the Bible in Latin meant one had to rely solely on the Church for guidance about your soul. In effect guaranteeing captivity for those wanting to know God.

Just one small example of the Catholic Church's intolerance - in 1516, two couples were burned at the stake in England for daring to teach their children the 10 commandments in English.

See Fox's Book of Martyrs: http://www.ccel.org/f/foxe/martyrs/

[danneskjold]

bump...

[Future Snake Eater]

The film has also raised concerns among Jewish groups who fear it will revive the charge that Jews are collectively responsible for the crucifixion of Jesus.

Yeah...how dare Mel Gibson dredge up historical fact! It's just not fair! Hasn't he ever heard of historical revision for the sake of political correctness?

[mlmr]

The Passion has been panned in advance by some critics who say the story has been done to death.


The centerpiece of Christianity has been "done to death?"
What are these, freaks? The only valid art depicting Christ must be transgressive in nature? Perhaps as a sex-addicted, porn using drug addict?

There is something so self-involved about that statement, and soooo disrespectful.

[B-Chan]

I'm not "conspiracy-minded", but I am a mystical, monarchist and disaffected conservative Catholic -- and I cannot wait to see this film. Mr. Gibson is right to claim that "the other world" was "warring" with him to prevent his retelling how Jesus died a horrible death for the sake of humanity. It obviously is; the demonic powers cringe at the Holy Name -- which is all the more reason to shout it out loud in every medium.

As a traditionalist Catholic deeply suspicious of the changes brought about in the church by the Second Vatican Council in the 1960s, I agree with Mr. Gibson that our current problems with "dwindling numbers and pedophilia" can be traced to the Vatican II era -- not the the teachings of the Council itself, but to the spirit of accommodation with the world so rampant in the 1960s that accompanied it. The proof is in the pudding: parishes and dioceses that cling to the authentic and ancient practice of the Faith are thriving, while those that offer worshippers the thin gruel of quasi-Protestant practices are losing members like sieves. In our parish, all three of our Sunday masses are packed (SRO on holidays) and even our Thursday morning mass is respectably attended. Why? Because Our Lord is adored there: His sanctuary is front and center, His Body and Blood are respected (communion on the tongue only from the hands of our priest while kneeling at an altar rail), and we have a proper crucifix (carried by an altar BOY) -- not a "ressufix" or Protestant cross -- displayed prominently among the beautiful statues, censers, and stained glass of our modest but dignfied church.

When it comes to religious faith, people want the Real Thing. Offer it to them and they will come. If this film offers viewers a glimpse of the real Jesus and his incomparable and saving sacrifice, it will succeed -- no matter how many detractors Hell sends against it. Kudos to Mr. Gibson for making his film his way.

[monkey]

The Passion has been panned in advance by some critics who say the story has been done to death.

What can you say?

And for the analysts:

This ignores the fact that attendance levels at Mass now are about what they were a century ago (high attendance levels in the decades before 1960 were the anomaly)

A century ago. Hilarious.

[Right to be Wrong]

The film has also raised concerns among Jewish groups who fear it will revive the charge that Jews are collectively responsible for the crucifixion of Jesus

Jesus was a Jew, his people were Jews, and he died for the Jews. SO WHY THE JEWS SHOULD FEAR. If God wanted Jesus to be someone else, Jesus would have been Roman, or Greek, or Egyptian or any other nationalities, but not, God wanted his Son to be what God felled himself to be.

Being a Catholic doesn't mean holding a sward but a cross.

Let Jesus rest in peace, so humanity can go on living in peace.

As a Catholic I am holding Jesus Heart.

[Havoc]

even to the point of having the actors speak exclusively in Latin and Aramaic.

Oh boy. Must not have been room for the language of the Apostles or of Christ. Greek must have been too minor to deal with. I like Gibson; but, If this is what is considered authentic, I may have to watch it with a barf bag in tow.

[matthew_the_brain]

I really wish these supposed Roman Catholic authors of these hit pieces would actually read the documents of Vatican II. No where in it does it eliminate the Tridentine or Latin Rite. If anyone actually took the time to read the documents of the council, one would find it was beautifully done and quite proper.

Gibson is a bit off base when he blames the current crisis on the council. Those evil bastards were around before Vatican II, and a case could be made that Vatican II was implemented to stop the current homosexual pederasty crisis.

Pax Christi.

[fightu4it]

And the unwashed masses will watch and be bathed in the blood of Mel.

Sheeeeeeeeezzz, is there no limit to the crass commercialism. The kicker is, IMHO, the guy is about the sorriest excuse for an actor that I can think of.