Mel's Jesus not everybody's messiah

Sydney Morning Herald ^ | April 1 2003 | By Chris McGillion

[TightSqueeze]

Catholics got an English Mass and the Protestants got all the good hymns. LOL!

It wasn't like they won them in a lottery, they wrote the hymns.

[kitkat]

***What is your source for these claims?***

My dear MrLeRoy, I am as ancient as the pyramids. LOL! I WAS THERE. I saw it first hand. I experienced it. I raised kids starting in the fifties.

Shortly after WWII, the Bishop purchased land in the suburbs. People thought he was crazy. "What do we need land way out there for?" was the common refraiin. That land was what became MY parish. The Bishop was far sighted. But not far sighted enough. My kids were in classes with 60+ students in the first grade. There was no land left to build another Catholic church in that particular suburb. Eventually, I had to transfer my children to public school.

When I took them to the first English Mass, I was thrilled at how easy it was for them to understand the meaning of the service.

Immediately after WWII, my father spoke to our local pastor, and suggested that he had better start thinking about expanding the school to accommodate all the children who would be born during what eventually came to be known as the Baby Boomer generation. The pastor, a Godly man, said he saw no reason to expand the school.

Years later, my husband and I wanted to buy a house in that neighborhood, but did not because the school was unable to take our children as students.

[Seajay]

I dunno ... at least at my parish, we are singing such good old Protestant super hits : "Old Rugged Cross", "How Can I Keep from Singing", "Amazing Grace" . Lets rock - AMEN !

[MrLeRoy]

With all due respect, your personal experiences are less than definitive as to what was happening nationwide.

[mlmr]

The Passion has been panned in advance by some critics who say the story has been done to death.


The centerpiece of Christianity has been "done to death?"
What are these, freaks? The only valid art depicting Christ must be transgressive in nature? Perhaps as a sex-addicted, porn using drug addict?

There is something so self-involved about that statement, and soooo disrespectful.

[B-Chan]

I'm not "conspiracy-minded", but I am a mystical, monarchist and disaffected conservative Catholic -- and I cannot wait to see this film. Mr. Gibson is right to claim that "the other world" was "warring" with him to prevent his retelling how Jesus died a horrible death for the sake of humanity. It obviously is; the demonic powers cringe at the Holy Name -- which is all the more reason to shout it out loud in every medium.

As a traditionalist Catholic deeply suspicious of the changes brought about in the church by the Second Vatican Council in the 1960s, I agree with Mr. Gibson that our current problems with "dwindling numbers and pedophilia" can be traced to the Vatican II era -- not the the teachings of the Council itself, but to the spirit of accommodation with the world so rampant in the 1960s that accompanied it. The proof is in the pudding: parishes and dioceses that cling to the authentic and ancient practice of the Faith are thriving, while those that offer worshippers the thin gruel of quasi-Protestant practices are losing members like sieves. In our parish, all three of our Sunday masses are packed (SRO on holidays) and even our Thursday morning mass is respectably attended. Why? Because Our Lord is adored there: His sanctuary is front and center, His Body and Blood are respected (communion on the tongue only from the hands of our priest while kneeling at an altar rail), and we have a proper crucifix (carried by an altar BOY) -- not a "ressufix" or Protestant cross -- displayed prominently among the beautiful statues, censers, and stained glass of our modest but dignfied church.

When it comes to religious faith, people want the Real Thing. Offer it to them and they will come. If this film offers viewers a glimpse of the real Jesus and his incomparable and saving sacrifice, it will succeed -- no matter how many detractors Hell sends against it. Kudos to Mr. Gibson for making his film his way.

[Sans-Culotte]

Frankly, I have doubts about the film. This business of the film being in Latin and Aramaic with no subtitles seems like a pointless stunt. How is "the message" going to reach people when they don't know what is being said?

[monkey]

The Passion has been panned in advance by some critics who say the story has been done to death.

What can you say?

And for the analysts:

This ignores the fact that attendance levels at Mass now are about what they were a century ago (high attendance levels in the decades before 1960 were the anomaly)

A century ago. Hilarious.

[kitkat]

***With all due respect, your personal experiences are less than definitive as to what was happening nationwide.***

With all due respect, my personal experiences took place in a largely Catholic area. (Make that county) What would have happened in other areas of the country where there were few Catholics? Poorer parishes could not afford to build new schools.

[Right to be Wrong]

The film has also raised concerns among Jewish groups who fear it will revive the charge that Jews are collectively responsible for the crucifixion of Jesus

Jesus was a Jew, his people were Jews, and he died for the Jews. SO WHY THE JEWS SHOULD FEAR. If God wanted Jesus to be someone else, Jesus would have been Roman, or Greek, or Egyptian or any other nationalities, but not, God wanted his Son to be what God felled himself to be.

Being a Catholic doesn't mean holding a sward but a cross.

Let Jesus rest in peace, so humanity can go on living in peace.

As a Catholic I am holding Jesus Heart.

[aimhigh]

The Passion has been panned in advance by some critics who say the story has been done to death.

Seriously, for every film on Christ, there are 50 on prostitute murders. For every film on Christ, there are a hundred films on adulterous affairs. For every film on Christ, there are hundreds of films on boy meets girl. Yet, they don't use the phrase, "done to death" when another romance or murder film is made. Pure hypocrisy.

[kitkat]

***The Passion has been panned in advance by some critics who say the story has been done to death. ***

That particular statement in the article surely grabbed my attention, also.

Was the writer making a comparison between a fictitious story and an historic event? It sounds to me as though that was his intention.

[StAthanasiustheGreat]

It was ugly on both sides, that is a well known fact. It doesn't help when one acts like the violence and un-Christian acts only went one way. We had "Bloody" Mary I, in terms of religious charity and tolerance, Elizabeth I actually wasn't much better (though this is one Catholic who probably would have supported Elizabeth out of nationalistic reasons). There is blood on all sides, and that is truly regretable. God Bless

[kitkat]

***Those who produced the present English-language texts for the Mass did a horribly unfaithful job of translating the Latin. ***

Dave, I'm confused. I had twelve years of teaching at Catholic schools. I learned the Mass thoroughly and haven't noticed any mistakes in the English Mass.

Would you be good enough to point them out to me? I would appreciate it.

[Havoc]

even to the point of having the actors speak exclusively in Latin and Aramaic.

Oh boy. Must not have been room for the language of the Apostles or of Christ. Greek must have been too minor to deal with. I like Gibson; but, If this is what is considered authentic, I may have to watch it with a barf bag in tow.

[matthew_the_brain]

I really wish these supposed Roman Catholic authors of these hit pieces would actually read the documents of Vatican II. No where in it does it eliminate the Tridentine or Latin Rite. If anyone actually took the time to read the documents of the council, one would find it was beautifully done and quite proper.

Gibson is a bit off base when he blames the current crisis on the council. Those evil bastards were around before Vatican II, and a case could be made that Vatican II was implemented to stop the current homosexual pederasty crisis.

Pax Christi.

[kitkat]

Well I do admit that we get to sing, "Away in the Manger," one of the most beautiful hymns in existence.

But I sure would like to have the hymns you mentioned. Can I visit?

[MrLeRoy]

my personal experiences took place in a largely Catholic area

A particular area with a particular bishop who was "not far sighted enough." No evidence there that all bishops nationwide had that failing.

[SoothingDave]

Dave, I'm confused. I had twelve years of teaching at Catholic schools. I learned the Mass thoroughly and haven't noticed any mistakes in the English Mass. Would you be good enough to point them out to me? I would appreciate it.

Check out Fr. Z at What Does the Prayer Really Say?

He has done this weekly column for the last few years, covering the official prayers in the Mass for each week (The first year he did the opening prayer, the second the "prayer over the gifts." This year he is doing the post-communion prayer.) It is quite clear that much is lacking in the official translations, especially where ideas of grace or sacrifice are encountered.

We deserve much better, more-faithful-to-the-text translations.

As an example, here is the last one given on the website, for the second Sunday of Lent:

LITERAL TRANSLATION: (done by Fr. Z)
As we are now grasping, O Lord, the glorious transforming sacrament,
we are busy offering thanks to you,
for you are granting us, placed here on earth,
to be participants of the heavenly mysteries now at this very moment.

ICEL (1973 translation of the 1970MR): (what we hear at Mass)
Lord,
we give thanks for these holy mysteries
which bring to us here on earth
a share in the life to come.

This is not a particularly egregious translation, the basic ideas are there. But still, a side-by-side comparison shows that we are not getting anywhere near the full ideas expressed in the Latin original of the prayer.

SD