What French papers say

The Telegraph (U.K.) ^ | 03/28/03 | Philip Delves Broughton

[TopQuark]

Ivan, you probably either know this already or don't care; but just in case...ping.

[JimRed]

This reply only refers to the headline, for reasons that will be apparent. I did not even read the text because WHO CARES WHAT FRENCH PAPERS SAY??!!!

[Bismark]

Yes- the French "capitulated" after suffering 120,000 deaths in a month in WWII. I would love to see the American resolve in this war if they suffered 1000 deaths in the weeks to come. Then you can come and bad mouth the French.

The French lost around 90,000 killed, 200,000 wounded and surrendered 1.9 million soldiers in the six weeks they fought.

I hope you don't get to see how we would react to 1000 US dead in Iraq, and I'd pointout to you that you're seeing how we react to 3,000 US dead in NY and DC. I don't think you'll see us surrendering regardless of the heartbreak of .4% losses. But then we aren't French.

[Tamar1973]

Well, well. If things were different on Sept 11, 2001- If the buildings in France were to be destroyed by terroists through airplanes, certainly things would have been different for French. Moreover, won't it be linked to Iraq? Certainly France would have done something in middle east.

Actually I don't think they would do anything differently. They surrender to the Germans, they have allowed millions of Arabs into their country so they would just surrender to the Muslim hoards, too.

[tophat9000]

Huey (UH1)are Bell aircraft an American company

[Lx]

Wasn't this after the French and English made the foolish promise to protect Poland in the event of an invasion? This after the capitulation in Munich, you know, peace in our time? This after they let Hitler take the rest of Czechoslovakia after they gave him the fortified Sudetenland.

In fact, I think it took longer to conquer Poland who fought on horses than it did for them to defeat France.

After they brought Petain out of retirement to join Reynaud's cabinet, he practically forced Reynaud's resignation and the armistice quickly followed. Then to cap it off, Petain sought to collaborate with the Germans because he thought it would get the French better treatment and because he thought the real enemy was Bolshevism. (Paraphrased from the book Command)

According to the book Command, the French lost 100,000 to the German's 40,000.

[Mister Magoo]

It's not just that the French were defeated. OK, so their armoured tactical doctrines were outdated, and the troops' elan was non-existent. But they could have continued the fight in exile, like the Dutch, Czechs, Norwegians, and Polish did. But no. The French surrendered and ALLIED with their enemy, actively participating in the exportation of forced labour to Germany and fired upon allied troops in Vichy-controlled territories and in North Africa. Disgraceful.

[Burkeman1]

Hmmmm- The British and French both guranteed Polish sovereignty. The Germans invaded and then the Soviets and they each traded political prisoners to be killed. But Britain and France only declared war on Germany.

At the end of the war- the Brits in the trenches and the families who had lost their sons who had been told the war was about Poland saw Soviet Russia take it over and half of Europe. Great trade off. Hitler for Stalin.

[Burkeman1]

Ah- The Free French under De Gaulle- despite our propaganda they served hard and fought well and took heavy causualities.

[Lx]

Actually, Hitler made the non aggression pact with his mortal enemy Stalin, how he got his party to support THAT is beyond me but maybe not Clinton. Once he knew that he had the East sewn up, then he setup operation Canned Goods to make it look like the Poles had attacked a German radio station and away they went.

The Brits and the French were trying to do the same thing with Stalin.

The funny part is that Stalin was much smarter and didn't attack Poland until it was almost over saving his army.

Then Hitler turned on Stalin, didn't see that one coming.

[Lx]

I could have sworn Eisenhower didn't trust DeGaulle at all and kept him out of all the planning.

He did let him march in front of the army into Paris after the US and British did all the heavy lifting.

I've also read, although I don't remember where, that the French resistance was pretty non existent and the myth was created after the war. I think in the book A Man called Intrepid, by William Stevenson that the resistance was mostly composed of clandestine radio operators. Not that that would be an easy job with German direction finders on your butt.

[Burkeman1]

And for your info- there were Dutch, Czech, Norwegian, and even Polish and Russian units in the SS. In fact the last two Waffen SS combat units in Berlin to defend the center were French and Norwegian. That just goes to show that while some in France loved De Gaulle other were facist.

[Burkeman1]

Stalin entered the Polish conflict at the agreed upon time. It was all set up before time. Stalin actually admired Hitler before his attack in June 1941.

[Burkeman1]

The Free French forces under De Gaulle took heavy losses- more than we did in ratio. But the "resistance" of the French has been way over blown. It was never that big of a deal.

[Lx]

I'm not saying I doubt you, I don't, but do you have any hard numbers so we can compare them to ours and British losses? After all, they were fighting for THEIR country.

[spodefly]

[Burkeman1]

I don't have hard numbers. But part of the reason De Gaulle was allowed to enter Paris first was the high numbers of French dead in the days before. I read it somewhere. But there are so many WWII websites that you can satisfy yourself.

[tarawa]

"Watch out! It's full of Arabs!"

I like that....

[Roy Tucker]

Did the French press fail to mention that if they had not held the US and its allies up with its perfidy, this sandstorm would be affecting us as we were mopping up Saddam from his bunker in Baghdad.

The French government did everything they could to try and get us to delay through the summer, hoping we would get tired of the wait. To paraphrase Margaret Thatcher, "we're not for turning."

[Lx]

Yeah, one blood thirsty dictator to another. They had secretly divvied up the spoils in the Nazi-Soviet pact but they didn't agree on when Russia would enter the war.

According to Shirer's, The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, Ribbentrop kept cabling the Russian minister Molotov on when would Russia invade? Russia wanted to wait until Warsaw fell so they could say they were only coming in to protect their rear while Ribbentrop wanted them in ASAP to help Germany. All in all, as Hitler and Ribbentrop found out, the Russians were pretty wily negotiators and yes, I do have an obsession with WWII.