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To: Mikey
Amid this collection of paranoid crap is proof that your contention if false.

It refers to titles of nobility or offices from a foreign country. Lawyers are admitted to practice by Americans entitled to do so by their respective STATES. "Esquire" is not a title of nobility in America or do you think "Sir" Mix-a-Lot is a noble? Ridiculous crap.

At least two thirds of the writers of the constitution were lawyers including the best ones. Only a fool would believe that our nation could have excluded such people as Madison, Jefferson, Hamilton, Adams, Monroe, Marshall, Randolph, Jackson, Calhoun, Van Buren, Polk, Lincoln, etc, etc, etc, etc, and suceeded as a nation. Sure excluding almost ALL of the founders would have been SUCH a GREAT idea. Can any idea be MORE absurd?

How many states were in the Union in 1819? How many would have had to have ratified this idiotic and redundent amendment? Which would have done nothing but waste ink anyway. Answer 20 or 21 and 15 or 16. Neither of the latter numbers was reached.

Oh, and the oldest copy of the constitution was NOT printed in 1825 it is in the National Archieves and is from 1787 and signed by the Convention members.

Your "Constitution" showing the "original" 13th amendment is bogus. Just getting printed in a book doesn't make it authentic and in order to evaluate its true meaning I would have to see the book and the context it is within. Probably says something like "the following is NOT a real constitution" but you left that out. LoL.
81 posted on 04/18/2003 7:06:17 AM PDT by justshutupandtakeit (RATS will use any means to denigrate George Bush's Victory.)
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To: justshutupandtakeit
"Esquire" is not a title of nobility in America"

Esq. "British. Latterly borrowed in U.S. Esquire.

Esquire. "British. A title after a mans name, a squire, or aspirant to knighthood. Aspirant. "A person who aspires; one who seeks advancement, honors, high position, etc."

Knighthood. "The rank or dignity of a knight."

Knight "A man usually of noble birth, who after an apprenticeship as a page and squire was raised to honorable military rank."

Noble "Belonging to or constituting a class (the nobility) possessing a hereditary social or political preeminence in a country or state."

Preeminent. "Eminent before or above others; superior to or surpassing others; distinguished beyond others."

All the above definitions taken from THE AMERICAN COLLEGE DICTIONARY , 1958

I don't know, it seems to me the word "Esquire" is a title of nobility. Maybe those who wrote "THE AMERICAN COLLEGE DICTIONARY " didn't know what they were talking about, so lets look to another dictionary and see what it has to say.

The following definitions were taken from Black's Law Dictionary.

Esquire. "In English law, a title of dignity next above gentleman , and below knight."

Gentleman. "In its English origin, this term formally referred to a man of noble birth or gentle birth." Nobility. "In English law, a division of the people, comprehending dukes, marquises, earls, viscounts, and barons. These had anciently duties annexed to their respective honors. They were created by writ, i.e., by royal summons to attend the house of peers, or by letters patent, i.e., by royal grant of any dignity and degree of peerage; and they enjoy many privileges, exclusive to their senatorial capacity." I'd say esquire is definitely a "Title of Nobility" . Than again the definitions given in Black's must be wrong because justshutupandtakeit says "Esquire" is not a title of nobility in America" so therefor Black's Law Dictionary as well as THE AMERICAN COLLEGE DICTIONARY must be wrong.

Lets see if I can find any other books with the definition of "Esquire" in them.

Lets try Bouviers.

ESQUIRE.

"A title applied by courtesy to officers of almost every description, to members of the bar, and others.
In England, it is a title next above that of a gentleman, and below a knight. Camden reckons up four kinds of esquires, particularly regarded by the heralds:

1. The eldest sons of knights and their eldest sons, in perpetual succession.
2. The eldest sons of the younger sons of peers, and their eldest sons in like perpetual succession.
3. Esquires created by the king's letters patent, or other investiture, and their eldest sons.
4. Esquires by virtue of their office, as justices of the peace, and others who bear any office of trust under the crown."

NOBILITY. "An order of men in several countries to whom privileges are granted at the expense of the rest of the people.

2. The constitution of the United States provides that no state shall " grant any title of nobility; and no person can become a citizen ot' the United States until he has renounced all titles of nobility." The Federalist, No. 84; 2 Story, Laws U. S. 851."
"It refers to titles of nobility or offices from a foreign country."

Every definition of "esquire" states its an "English" term. I believe England is a foreign country to ours, but I guess (according to you) I'd be wrong in that statement as well. I gotta say the word "esquire" really truly looks like a title of nobility to me.

83 posted on 04/18/2003 5:42:16 PM PDT by Mikey
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To: justshutupandtakeit
The Federalist No. 84

Certain General and Miscellaneous Objections to the Constitution Considered and Answered

Independent Journal

Wednesday, July 16, Saturday, July 26, Saturday, August 9, 1788

[Alexander Hamilton]

"It may well be a question, whether these are not, upon the whole, of equal importance with any which are to be found in the constitution of this State. The establishment of the writ of habeas corpus, the prohibition of ex post facto laws, and of TITLES OF NOBILITY, to which we have no corresponding provision in our Constitution, are perhaps greater securities to liberty and republicanism than any it contains. The creation of crimes after the commission of the fact, or, in other words, the subjecting of men to punishment for things which, when they were done, were breaches of no law, and the practice of arbitrary imprisonments, have been, in all ages, the favorite and most formidable instruments of tyranny. The observations of the judicious Blackstone,1 in reference to the latter, are well worthy of recital: "To bereave a man of life, [says he] or by violence to confiscate his estate, without accusation or trial, would be so gross and notorious an act of despotism, as must at once convey the alarm of tyranny throughout the whole nation; but confinement of the person, by secretly hurrying him to jail, where his sufferings are unknown or forgotten, is a less public, a less striking, and therefore a more dangerous engine of arbitrary government." And as a remedy for this fatal evil he is everywhere peculiarly emphatical in his encomiums on the habeas corpus act, which in one place he calls "the BULWARK of the British Constitution."2

Nothing need be said to illustrate the importance of the prohibition of titles of nobility. This may truly be denominated the corner-stone of republican government; for so long as they are excluded, there can never be serious danger that the government will be any other than that of the people."

Now we're a government of the lawyers, by the lawyers and for the lawyers. That's why they keep referring to it as "our democracy"

84 posted on 04/18/2003 6:25:21 PM PDT by Mikey
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