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American Legal System Is Corrupt Beyond Recognition, Judge Tells Harvard Law School
MassNews.com ^ | March 7 2003 | Geraldine Hawkins

Posted on 03/27/2003 5:04:29 AM PST by Brian Allen

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To: Brian Allen
It was incredibly inspiring to hear this stated. It echoed my personal philosophy word for word.
21 posted on 03/27/2003 6:48:36 AM PST by Tamzee ("Sabotage" and "Charade"....no French translation necessary.)
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To: Mamzelle
At present, lawyers bring class actions that deliver pennies to the mass plaintiffs, but through "volume" make millions for the lawyers. You could start by making this illegal--the recent CD class action comes to mind. This is just one example in the civil courts.

Your oversimplification of this issue is quite common. Indeed, class action suits due make more money for the individual lawyers, than the plaintiffs. Of course, you completely discount the chilling effect on consumers that making class-action suits "illegal" would have.

Next time you have a problem with a defective part in your car, see how well you do in a lawsuit against GM when you are payinging your lawyer individually, and GM hires lawyers like me by the dozens to bury you.

As a defense lawyer, I agree that far too many seemingly frivolous class-actions are brought. Indeed, Courts need to be more vigilant in applying the rule 11 standard. Fortunately, however, the rules are drafted to permit a very liberal reading. The purpose is to insure that any suit, with even a shred of merit, can see the light of day before being arbitrarily struck.

The death of class action suits would leave large corporations completely unchecked. In such an absence, the government would have to play an increasing role in the regulatory world to protect consumers. Pick your poisen. Third-party suits that act as a natural market regulator, or true government regulation of big business?

22 posted on 03/27/2003 6:59:39 AM PST by Iron Eagle
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To: cynicom; JohnHuang2; MeeknMing
<< ..... the need is to stop appointing lawyers as judges ..... One of the foremost noted supreme court justices was not a lawyer. >>

Many of the English-Speaking world's very finest judges have been other than lawyers.

I always find it difficult, given the self-perpetuating politocracy's preoccupation with [Getting along without?] ethics and with [Dodging charges of?] conflict of interest, to reconcile that lawyers are permitted to be politicians.

Let alone be "judges."
23 posted on 03/27/2003 7:20:20 AM PST by Brian Allen (I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny ....)
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To: Bluntpoint; jude24
<< If accountants had the same mentality as lawyers, they could hire themselves out to the highest bidder and argue all day for their client that 2 + 2 = 3 >>

If accountants had the same mentality as lawyers and hired themselves out to the highest bidder and argued all day for their client that 2 + 2 = 3 -- wouldn't we call them "psychologists."
24 posted on 03/27/2003 7:22:47 AM PST by Brian Allen (I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny ....)
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To: Cicero
<< It's a miracle that Harvard invited this judge to speak. >>

Amen to that!

[Guess God is alive and well -- and on the job -- after all, eh?]

HehHehHeh ..........
25 posted on 03/27/2003 7:24:39 AM PST by Brian Allen (I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny ....)
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To: Tamsey
<< It [Is] incredibly inspiring to hear this stated. It [Echoes] my personal philosophy word for word. >>

Isn't it, though?

Me too!
26 posted on 03/27/2003 7:26:00 AM PST by Brian Allen (I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny ....)
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To: Brian Allen
bttt
27 posted on 03/27/2003 7:29:14 AM PST by TLBSHOW
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To: Brian Allen
Have a family member that is a judge. Corrupt as they come. Joe Sixpack with the "wrong" lawyer goes to the slammer. Mr. Bigshot with the "right" lawyer, walks.
28 posted on 03/27/2003 7:32:04 AM PST by cynicom
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To: Bigun
Thank you -- Bookmarked!
29 posted on 03/27/2003 7:32:10 AM PST by Brian Allen (I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny ....)
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To: Brian Allen
The American legal system has been corrupted almost beyond recognition, Judge Edith Jones of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit, told the Federalist Society of Harvard Law School on February 28. She said that the question of what is morally right

What does courts deciding the question of what is morally right have to do with federalism? Leave morality to the churches, and restrict courts to applying the laws and Constitution rather than "interpreting" them.

30 posted on 03/27/2003 7:34:08 AM PST by MrLeRoy ("That government is best which governs least.")
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To: Diogenesis
Everything you have stated is the point of the author's speech.

Someone has to whine, as you describe it, to draw attention to the problem.

31 posted on 03/27/2003 8:35:05 AM PST by happygrl
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To: Brian Allen
Hit me with a feather and knock me over!

What a tremendous speech.

I'm glad to learn of the Federalist Society, and pray that it will flourish and bear fruit for the future of Law in this country.

I'll also pray for a Great Awakening in the Law Schools of this country.

And that God will smite the Democrats for fillibustering the nominations of those jurists who would return the Law to its intended basis.

32 posted on 03/27/2003 8:46:16 AM PST by happygrl
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To: Brian Allen
BTTT
33 posted on 03/27/2003 8:46:39 AM PST by Liz
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To: Kevin Curry
"How about the Enron accountants who argued 2+2=$111
million?"

Legal's memo to accounting:

"$111 million? Did you mean billion?"


34 posted on 03/27/2003 9:49:56 AM PST by Bluntpoint
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To: cynicom
>>>Basically, the need is to stop appointing lawyers as judges<<<

You are so right!! We must also stop electing lawyers as judges, at the local and state judiciary level, and create a pool of non lawyer judges for the Federal system to appoint from.
35 posted on 03/27/2003 10:13:31 AM PST by Valpal1 (We will sing in the golden city, in the new Jerusalem.)
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To: Valpal1
Lawyers have become manipulators of the law, for personal profit. Justice has fallen by the wayside. As an extension of this "manipulation", far too many congressmen are lawyers.

A doctor cannot manufacture a sick person for profit, a lawyer goes looking for "victims". Bad profession.

36 posted on 03/27/2003 10:21:40 AM PST by cynicom
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To: Iron Eagle
It's all very well for a lawyer to don the Superman cape when it comes his notions of how he "protects" the consumer, when the rapid expansion of the numbers of lawyers has led to staggering, and hidden, "lawyer taxes" in all the merchandise we buy, cars especially. Might be interesting to know how many "consumers'" are being protected from dangerous new cars simply because they can't afford the 20% lawyer surcharge and don't buy them to begin with! Our freedoms, our "pursuits of happiness" contract all around us every day because of the unregulated and unchecked frivolities of litigation.

When you take your family to Orlando this spring or summer, know that the major trauma center has had to downgrade its Level status, and you won't be able to get a neurosurgeon quickly because litigation has driven them away. And the nearby Florida ERs rec'ing the Orlando injured are starting to crack under the stress, too. You might rather, someday, have a doc ready to sew your backbone back together than your much-vaunted, lawyer-driven "consumer protections." Who'll protect you when you LACK having that help in the operating room when you need it? Lawyers? How I wish they *could* be help personally liable for the situation they've created...

Perhaps the Twin Towers might have held together a little longer if it wasn't for the lawyers' ravenous insantity on the issue of asbestos. Perhaps not--we'll never know. All we know is the lack of availability of a pretty darn good fire protector--because no builder can risk using common sense in choosing his materials. The juries cannot be trusted, and the lawyers exploit them mightily.

Now I'm laughing at the homeowners in Texas who thought they could abuse their insurance (mold) and now can't buy houses because they can't find insurance to get their mortgages!

On the less vital end, try finding riding lessons for children, or any kind of sport for kids other than the rather boring ones that are so "safe." I could go on and on...

37 posted on 03/27/2003 10:54:41 AM PST by Mamzelle
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To: Mamzelle
How I wish they *could* be help personally liable for the situation they've created...

Your blame is misplaced, I fear. Obviously, i do not defend alll lawyers, and I certainly do not defend all Plaintiff's lawyers. But, most of the rising costs of health care can be attributed to, in order:

1) managed care (regulation forcing health care providers to charge non-market prices;

2) Federal, state, and local mandates that force facilities to provide patient care to the uninsured, and to illegal immigrants

3) Rising litigation costs (Brought about by two different factors:

a) Plaintiffs willing to sue for anything, and juries willing to award damages for new and suspect injuries. (Don't forget that in EVERY case for damages, an expert DOCTOR must testify to injuries. This includes using phony psuedo-science for make believe injuries.) Without those DOCTORS as experts, no case can be won. Of course, without willing plaintiffs to sue, no case can be heard.

b) Insurance companies that settle frivolous claims to avoid trying meritorious cases. They settle a claim without a practitioners' consent, and then they jack up the rates on that practitioner.

4) Fraud by unscupulous doctors and health care providers that double claim, triple claim, or make bogus claims. (This is another net effect of creating huge managed care companies)

In fact, everyone blames the lawyers, but they have many willing accomplices. Most willing, unfortunately, are uneducated juries. Where I practice, everyone knows that if you have a Plaintiff's case in D.C., you have a good shot at real money. If you have the exact same case in Northern Virginia, you might not even file it. Why? Not because defense counsel is any tougher in Northern Va, it is because a much more educated jury pool is far less forgiving of frivolous suits.

I have never won or lost a case based on my opinion as a lawyer. It's your opinion, sitting in that jury box, that almost always is the deciding factor. (Some crappy cases can be thrown-out by the judge before getting to a jury).

The problem may not be us (lawyers) it may be you (jurors). Like I said, though, my clients are fortune 500 companies and I defend them. So, if you want to kill the class-action suits. They will be quite pleased. Frankly, these companies would rather be paying our corporate boys to find and make business, rather than us litigators in defending their business. (Corporate/transactional stuff is more profitable to us as lawyers as well)

38 posted on 03/27/2003 11:47:51 AM PST by Iron Eagle
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To: Iron Eagle
Counselor, I did not accuse lawyers of being the major drive in the costs of medical care. They can certainly be blamed for doing Orlando out of first-tier trauma care, and probably second-tier very shortly. Other cities, states, and communities are falling also.

The rise in the cost of medical care is many-pronged, and the one prong least discussed is that the better it is, the more it costs. Recently there was a poster on FR asking advice about gall bladder disease. Gall bladder surgery is a big success story--it is a plain vanilla operation, used to be done by slicing through a muscle and recovery was slow. Now it's done with little incisions and this cool little camera that kind of crawls though your innards--recovery is very swift, pain and bad results lower. Unfortunately, that little camera makes the operation much more expensive--seems it costs more than a scalpel . Muliply that by lots of "successes."

Illegal aliens are a huge stress. Mentally ill. Drug abuse, also. (Meth labs, they are a'explodin'--) Compensation is down, and with it the hospital's ability to swap the costs from the unpaying to the paying. Add to that crippling malpractice insurance, and you better make sure your teenager takes part in no car wrecks, because your hospital is a car wreck, too.

39 posted on 03/27/2003 11:58:56 AM PST by Mamzelle
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To: cynicom
Lawyers shouldn't even be referred to as part of a profession anymore. They are just another industry and the law is their raw material.

There was a ballot initiative in Texas a couple of election cycles ago to actually eliminate the Texas State Bar Association. That would be a great start.

40 posted on 03/28/2003 7:50:14 AM PST by Middle Man
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