The Right Thing (ACU's Keene slams Frum over NR article)

American Conservative Union | 3/25 | David Keene

[GOPcapitalist]

bump!

[Longshanks]

His vituperative attack on one of the nation's most respected conservative columnists marks the man as neither conservative nor intellectually respectable.

Frum should make an apology.

[sinkspur]

Sorry, David. This about more than the war on Iraq.

Paleos have a burr under their saddles about Israel, and, some of them, about Jews in general.

They also think we can just roll up the sidewalks and walk away from the rest of the world.

They're worthless on this war on terrorism. Absolutely worthless.

They think the Constitution is a suicide pact.

[Keyesman]

What exactly is a "paleo" conservative? I read Frum's column, and am still not entirely sure.

thanks.

[GOPcapitalist]

Paleos have a burr under their saddles about Israel, and, some of them, about Jews in general.

Try reading Keene's article before you rant. His concern is not about the paleos, but of Frum's treatment of Robert Novak.

[sinkspur]

His concern is not about the paleos, but of Frum's treatment of Robert Novak.

Novak's no fan of Israel. Never has been.

He's never seems to have a problem with Arabs.

[GOPcapitalist]

What exactly is a "paleo" conservative? I read Frum's column, and am still not entirely sure.

The term is generally used to describe a faction of conservatism normally associated with Buchananites, anti-immigration people and the sort. Some argue that they are anti-Jewish as well, though there are also Jews who describe themselves as "paleos."

By contrast, David Frum seems to think that a "paleo" is anything and everything that does not agree with him whether the label is accurate or not.

[GOPcapitalist]

Novak's no fan of Israel. Never has been.

So what's your point? That doesn't make him part of a "paleo" conspiracy or deserving of an ad hominem blanket smear by Frum.

[sinkspur]

That doesn't make him part of a "paleo" conspiracy or deserving of an ad hominem blanket smear by Frum.

Smear? Novak opposed the first Gulf War, he opposed this war...what are we to make of Bob Novak?

I like listening to him, and I appreciate his economic views. But he never met an Arab he didn't like.

I'm one of those who scratches my head over anybody who opposes removing Hussein from power. That includes the Pope, David Keene, my brother, and Bob Novak.

[GOPcapitalist]

Novak opposed the first Gulf War, he opposed this war...what are we to make of Bob Novak?

That may be so, but it is still no excuse to lump him in a group with the ANSWER marxists. It is also dishonest for Frum to attack Novak the way he does as Novak, though a convert to Catholicism, is ethnically Jewish himself. So is Paul Gottfried, another writer that Frum smeared with his broad brush of anti-semitism.

I'm one of those who scratches my head over anybody who opposes removing Hussein from power. That includes the Pope, David Keene, my brother, and Bob Novak.

Evidently you still have not read the article. Keene states that he disagrees with Novak's view, but then notes that disagreement is no grounds to viciously smear Novak as Frum did.

[Torie]

Without reading the Frum article, in my experience, Paleos tend to be protectionist, nativist, isolationist, enthusiastic about waging the culture wars, pessimistic about the future of American prospects, particularly from a cultural point of view, suspicious of the motives of Jews, and indulge a nostagia for the Confederacy. In other words, they tend to believe exactly the opposite of what I believe.

[Torie]

Novak is not a Paleo. That is quite silly. He is more in the mode of the old WASP establishment, and its suspicions about Israeli intentions, and its inconveniencing of what they perceived as larger American interests in the Arab world. Of course, so much of all this sounds so dated today. Israel has ceased to be as important in shaping how the US has to and will deal with the Arab world.

[tpaine]

I'm one of those who scratches my head over anybody who opposes removing Hussein from power. That includes the Pope, David Keene, my brother, and Bob Novak.
10 -SS-


I doubt that any of those above [except your krazy kin] 'oppose' removing Saddam from power.

-- Have you given ~any~ thought lately sinky, on how weird some of your recent pronouncements appear? You may be on the verge of lo0sing it, my boy. Get some rest.

[u-89]

What exactly is a "paleo" conservative?

In a nutshell - Paleoconservatism is a name used to distinguish the traditional conservative movement (and those who adhere to it today) that existed before a group of Trotskyites, liberals and Democrats claimed they were "conservative" and moved into the Republican party and become dominant. Basically the neocon's accept FDR's New Deal socialism as well as Johnson's Great Society as good ideas (just managed poorly) i.e. they are for a strong central government and the welfare state. On foreign policy they go far beyond national defense to the point where they are down right aggressive, belligerent even. Paleocons see this stance as dangerous to the national health and world peace.

Neocons have been trying to personify paleoconservatism as the very embodiment of a racist pre-civil rights US. This tar brush is designed to paint their opposition's ideas of all kinds - foreign and domestic as beyond the pale. Basically this fight is about maintaining the position of power the neo's have achieved. Since some of the paleos aren't suffering the slander in silence the fight is getting nasty.

[sinkspur]

Have you given ~any~ thought lately sinky, on how weird some of your recent pronouncements appear? You may be on the verge of lo0sing it, my boy. Get some rest.

Weird? A drug-addled libertarian calling somebody else weird?

[sinkspur]

Neocons have been trying to personify paleoconservatism as the very embodiment of a racist pre-civil rights US.

As long as you snuggle up to Sam Francis, that's exactly what you are.

[Constitution Day]

self-BUMP for tomorrow

[Torie]

I haven't read much that suggests that Paleos in general place much emphasis at all in cutting back the social safety net (be it social security, medicare, unemployment insurance, etc., which is really what the FDR legacy is about), except for welfare mothers back when. Paleos seem moreover to love welfare for rustbelt and other low value added industries. In some ways, I think they are rather fond of the German model, where one's job is protected for life, and one works for one company for life. I think they like the stability of it all, even if it will in the long term slash the robustness of our economy. That certainly seemed Pat Buchanan's leitmotif.

[tpaine]

Sure sinky, claim your opponents are 'drug addled'. - Makes as much sense as your previous pronouncement that they ~want~ Saddam in power.
-- Goofy-talk ....