Basra: Why they are not cheering

BBC ^ | 3/25/2003 | Paul Reynolds

[a_Turk]

They were supposed to be cheering in the streets as the American and British tanks rolled in, just as they did in France in 1944.

On 18 March, the New York Times reported: "Military and allied officials familiar with the planning of the upcoming campaign say they hope that a successful and 'benign' occupation of Basra that results in flag-waving crowds hugging British and American soldiers will create an immediate and positive image worldwide while also undermining Iraqi resistance elsewhere."

The fact is that Basra is not undergoing a benign occupation. It has just been declared a military target by British forces which have come under attack from inside.

This was a city which the British spokesman Colonel Chris Vernon said early on was not of military importance.

In the scheme of things, it still isn't. But it has become a problem.

'Under threat'

What has happened?

The explanation, according to British and American officials, is that Saddam Hussein's forces are still oppressing the people who cannot therefore show their true emotions.

Dr John Reid, the British Labour Party chairman compared the irregular Saddam forces dressed in black - known as Saddam's Fedayeen - to the SS in Nazi Germany.

The US Deputy Defence Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, one of those who wants Iraq to be a the start of a democratization process across the Arab world, told the BBC: "I think that when the people of Basra no longer feel the threat of that regime, you are going to see an explosion of joy and relief, but right now they're still under threat.

"Saddam is still maybe alive and his goons and his assassination squads are still there."

Bad memories

The people remember, it is said, what happened in 1991 when on 15 February, President George Bush senior urged "the Iraqi military and the Iraqi people to take matters in their own hands and force Saddam Hussein the dictator to step aside".

The people did try, both in the Kurdish areas of the north and the mainly Shia areas of the south, including Basra.

They were cut down. The Kurds fled into the mountains of southern Turkey, but the Shias (and others like the communists) in the south had nowhere to go.

The London-based organisation Indict, which seeks to put Iraqi leaders on trial for war crimes, has accounts of mass executions in Basra and other southern cities as the Ba'ath party and the Republican Guard re-imposed their control.

Not cheering

However, it might not be as simple as that.

Consider what happened in Basra last Saturday when there were air raids. The Qatari television channel al-Jazeera had a team in the city and it sent back graphic pictures of dead and wounded civilians which were widely shown in the Arab world.

But these images have been all but ignored in the West, which seems more interested in pictures of the American prisoners of war.

People do not take kindly to being bombed, even by "friendly forces".

British forces, if they enter Basra to counter resistance there, will have to follow the advice of Colonel Tim Collins of the Royal Irish Regiment who told his men before the war started: "Tread carefully".

There is an interesting article in the Guardian of 25 March from its correspondent, James Meek, who has been with the US Marines in Nasiriya. He shows how hostility to Saddam Hussein is not necessarily converted into support for the invasion.

He managed to talk not just to marines but to locals, one of whom Mustafa Mohammed Ali was a surgical assistant at the Saddam hospital in the city.

He said that in fighting on Sunday bombs were dropped on civilian areas, killing 10 people.

That day, two dead marines were brought to the hospital and he made this admission: "When I saw the dead Americans I cheered in my heart."

And yet he did not support Saddam Hussein: "We don't want Saddam, but we don't want them [the Americans] to stay afterwards."

Meek quoted another man, a farmer named Said Yahir, as saying that the marines had come to his house and had taken his son, his rifle and 3m dinars (£500; $800).

"This is your freedom that you're talking about? This is my life savings," he said.

Said Yahir himself had taken part in the uprising of 1991. He is not cheering in 2003.

Effect of sanctions

There are two other points: the effect of years of sanctions and the effect of nationalism.

Although the sanctions regime allows for the provision of food and medicine, this is not always delivered to the poor.

Saddam Hussein is not blamed but the United Nations and the United States are.

The sufferers from sanctions may take time to be convinced that the invaders are bringing them relief.

Iraqi nationalism is another powerful influence.

Those who know the country say that it can hold people together, whether they are Kurds, Sunnis or Shias.

It appears to be a factor in the current phenomenon.

A coming together often happens to a people under siege, and a siege is what the Iraqis are now experiencing.

[LS]

"That is nothing more than a benefit. If the Iraqi's can live better lives free from tyranny after this is over then good for them. I will be happy to see it. But for this American I really dont give a crap. This war is about disarming a madman who in fact does have relationships with terrorists and in fact does have WMD. End of story."

Amen, Bro.

[Hillarys Gate Cult]

I just saw something interesting on FOX News Channel. They were having a "funeral" for three people supposedly killed by the war. Looking at the large rowdy crowd, I noticed something. There were men interspersed throughout the crowd who didn't look like they were caught up in the excitement of the moment, or sad. They looked serious, like the were doing a job. They were Saddam's crowd minders. I just never noticed them before.

[Post Toasties]

Getting reports of a popular uprising in Basra against the Saddamites now.

[a_Turk]

>> I dont really care if there are dancing Iraqi's in the streets.

I don't really care either. Just wanted to see if there was anyone who did..

[a_Turk]

>> The Communist agitprop is really, really begining to piss me off.

Me too. Especially when they're trying to take advantage of the unfortunate situation with Turkey..

[Prysson]

Glad to see I am not alone.

[CheneyChick]

Yup, and based on these new reports, they might need to re-write this article.

[Prysson]

Sorry my rant was not at you..it was more directed at the author of the article. :)

[Trust but Verify]

BBC propaganda. We stole some guys dinars? HIGHLY unlikely.

[J. L. Chamberlain]

That photo has been cropped. What you don't see is that the little girl's feet have been blown off. The horror of war.

J

[browardchad]

This war is about disarming a madman who in fact does have relationships with terrorists and in fact does have WMD. End of story. People can play up the "liberate Iraq" all they want. If in the end of the day they are liberated great but I really dont care so long as they dont have WMD.

This is, unfortunately, the naked truth. If we expect gratitude from the Arab or Muslim world, we'll be waiting a long, long time. Just saw the Iraqis on TV parading a dead body in the streets of Baghdad. The only difference between this barbaric ritual as enacted by the Palestinians is that the Iraqis seemed to have a casket (and it's anyone's guess what was in it.)

Time to be selfish and toughminded: precious young American lives are being sacrificed to protect America, first and foremost.

By the way, I heard on Fox this morning that they've restored 40% of the water supply in Basra, and I've read elsewhere that Saddam's minions were responsible for turning off the spigot farther up the line.

[a_Turk]

>> We stole some guys dinars? HIGHLY unlikely.

We're the object and consequently the victim of lies ourselves, so I understand. The reality is that truth does not much matter. It's a relative term. A falsehood may be the truth to someone else. It depends on what someone has been conditioned to believe.

[cinFLA]

I keep trying to find some good in the arab world ...

(from on-line Pravda)

"CAMEL BEAUTY CONTEST TAKES PLACE IN ARAB EMIRATES

The first national camel beauty contest is taking place in the United Arab Emirates. Some 500 camels passed the first of the total four stages of the contest in Abu-Dabi emirate yesterday. Pursuant to the terms of the contest, which is now going to be held every year, the judges were paying their attention to the following qualities of the camels: health, the beauty of head, eyes, cheek-bones, legs, humps, and affection to the owner.

Such contests are very rare in the countries of the Gulf, and only female animals take part in them. But this time the male camels got the privilege to participate as well. The camels do not have that large economic significance as they used to before. They are presumably grown for sports competitions now. The prize of the camel beauty contest makes up $110 thousand."

Translated by Dmitry Sudakov

[CheneyChick]

That photo has been cropped. What you don't see is that the little girl's feet have been blown off. The horror of war.

[Prysson]

Wouldnt surprise me at all. We arent in the business of kiling civilians and everyone who is honest about it knows that. I dont mean to convey the wrong impression..that somehow I am careless about the loss of innocent lives. But wars sometimes have to be fought and when they do you cant paralyze yourselves over the cost. Otherwise we might as well all roll over and start shopping for prayer rugs.

[ZULU]

Any reticence on the part of Kurds or Shiites to rise up against Saddam a second time may be laid at the feet of Bush I and that diplmatic blunderer, Colin Powell, who engineered their destruction under Saddam after the first Gulf War, which is, after all, why we are here again in the first place.

On the other hand, one of the main reasons we left Saddam in power after the First Gulf War was due to fear of angering neighboring Islamic states, who, like the overwheliming number of Muslims, view non-Muslims and non-Muslim states from an entirely different perspective than they view states run by Muslims.

The average Muslim would rather be brutally oppressed and surpressed by a fellow Muslim than emulate an non-Islamic state, which is the reason most Islamic states are economic backwaters today.

[jt8d]

Prysson: AMEN!!!

Turk: Did the thought ever occur to you that Iraqi's "military" is now dressing IN CIVILIAN CLOTHING and MINGLING AMONG THE CIVILIAN POPULATION OF BASARA?...

Did it not occur to you, Turk, that those peaceful Iraqis, who would otherwise welcome their deliverence, are not certain whom they may trust among themselves at this present moment?

This probability is so obvious as to be impossible to miss by all but the most jaundiced mind. Many of the Iraqi population know when to keep their mouths shut, Turk...
You should take a few lessons from them.

[Marianne]

From the article: LINK
"Nathen had been captured the previous day, along with dozens of others, and like them, had been let go, Sgt Sprague said. Then they caught him again with a Kalashnikov in mint condition and 3m dinars.
'So the question I would like to be asked is, if this person already went through EPW [enemy prisoner of war] questioning and was found to be OK, why on earth would he come back? The problem with these people is that you can't believe anything they say.' . . .
In the end the marines let father and son go on their way with gun and money, accepting that both were for personal use. But Sgt Sprague was none too happy to see them go. The convoys have, after all, come under sporadic mortar attack. 'There's a mad mortarman out there,' he said."

[reformedliberal]

I noticed 2-3 of these guys at the site of the downed Apache, as well. All the *cheering* farmers were watching them off and on for cues. The minders were wearing white shirts and what looked like sweater vests and they were not cheering enthusiastically, but limply pumping their arms while scanning the assembled group. Sort of like cheerleaders, but not cute at all.

And FNC reporting the Brits just dropped a large bomb on Baath Party HQ in Basra!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They'll go in in the morning and clean out the Fedayeen!!!!!

[Experiment 6-2-6]

Meek quoted another man, a farmer named Said Yahir, as saying that the marines had come to his house and had taken his son, his rifle and 3m dinars (£500; $800).

Kidnapping is such an ugly word. C'mon, SOMEONE has to mix the martinis and keep the place tidy.. For some reason the UCMJ doesn't like it if you mistreat the enlisted troops by having them do this for you. (unless you're field grade or above) And the 2nd Lieutenants will only do so much before THEY smarten up.

The fact that ya gets an AK-47 as a "war trophy" at the same time is a plus! And, for some reason, when ya gots to resupply the vodka, I don't suppose the local liquor barn takes American Express... (/sarcasm)

Almost, but not quite, a Pago Pago ping