***Operation Iraqi Freedom - Situation Room - Day 6 - LIVE THREAD***

Multiple ^ | 25 March 2003 | Various

[An.American.Expatriate]

Good Morning.

This is the Daily Thread of Operation Iraqi Freedom - LIVE THREAD.

It is designed for general conversation about the events of the day. In depth discussion of events should be left to individual threads - but links to the threads or other articles is highly encouraged. This allows us to stay abreast of the situation in general, while also providing a means of obtaining specific information.

Please have mercy on us dial up limited FReepers! Limit the big graphics, post links instead. A breif description of what the graphic is would help:

Special thanks to null and void for keeping these running over the weekend and Monday, to all of you for keeping these threads alive, the AdminMods for their tolerance, mhking for the video links, and, of course, Belly Girl...

[justshe]

I don't want the RG softened up.....I want them totally melted! Wicked Witch of the East, melted.

[Robert A Cook PE]

What's Stalingrad?

Tough question to answer, m'dear, in short phrases.

Germany assaulted Russia in June, 1941 with slightly under 200 divsions: over 1.8 million men. By the winter, they'ed captured (can't spell conquor accurately this late at night!) and had the western 1/3 of Russia - draw a line from Leningrad at the north to the Black Sea at the south: that how much Germany got between June and November.

Losses? 200,000 - 500,000 Germans; roughly 5.4 million Russians.

Yep - Millions. Of dead. Not hundreds or dozens or thousands, but millions of dead. All for oil. (This ignores the tens of millions of Soviet civilians also deliberately killed by the Nazi's and Communists as well.)

In winter '41-'42, the Germans lost over 200,000 more men - mostly by simply freezing to death because their uniforms and equipment weren't ready for the cold. Russian attacks killed more, but only gained a little territory.

So in spring '42 Hitler still the needed the OIL FIELDS (yep - they're still there!) in the southern Causcus Mountains - south of Stalingrad, and he wanted a route south to the Saudi/Iraq oil fields too. So he concentrated his '42 attack in the south finally assaulting the city of Stalingrad directly, and did some stupid movements and attacks in the area around the city and south of it in the mountains.

Lots of complex stuff - but basically stupid strategic decisions. (Both of which are words also too hard to spell this late!)

The Germans got trapped into a Looooooooooooooooooooong city/block-by-block/house-by-house/room-by-room attack in the city of Stalingrad on the Volga:look at it on the map - you can see how the Soviet armies could surround and trap the German invaders in the little circle (50 mile) around the city. (Sound familiar?)

But - The Germans were refused permission to fight out to their nearby troops: over 150,000 were trapped inside, plus many tens of thousands already killed. (Hitler thought fighting out of a trap was losing ground and refused to let his troops out: in Korea at the Chosin Reservoir the Marines simply said they "were attacking the other way" and didn't have any problems leaving a Chinese trap!)

So the 150,00 trapped inside fought in the city from September to Febraury (roughly) in hand-and combat that ending up killing half the assault troops, and 500,000 Russian troops.... Or more.

That's Stalingrad - you need to read it to understand the Soviets, the Russians (they're different!), and the Germans' attitudes towards war.

But, you see - WE DON'T FIGHT THAT WAY.

What are tring to indicate?

Are going to be as stupid as Hitler in attacking/defending a city we don't want to conquer? Are we going to be as stubborn/stupid as the Soviets in defnding an isolated if we don't need to? Are the Iraqi's going to be as effective as the Soviets in defending the city?

The liberals DON'T WANT W to succeed.

This is their plan: to destroy Bush by any means possible. The war is against Bush, not Saddamn, in their minds.

Bush is the ultimate evil in their minds (as a conservative Christian white male) and must be destroyed.

[texxie]

thx:)

[blondee123]

Maybe it's overkill, but it might help cut down on the complaint/justification cycle that bogs down threads every now and then.

Maybe a "war" chat thread would help.

[Ophiucus]

And isn't the Col. wonderfully gung-ho....

[texxie]

thx I think Carney got it straight now lol j/k Carney

[Sir_Ed]

Is Hussong's still around?

Ed

[B4Ranch]

check your freep mail

[Anomaly in Illinois]

I was born in 1968, my first memories of a President are of Watergate.

Born and raised in Chicago, Mayor Richard J. Daley Sr. & you should have seen the zoo that took over after he died.

Politicians have to really earn my trust.

[DonnerT]

Nite SG.

[texxie]

I'm not in LA city just the county almost in orange co

[justshe]

Hussong and Larrys? San Diego?

[B4Ranch]

Unless the compound exactly fit the Iraqi compounds it would be very obvious to a scientist tyhat we did it.

[dfwgator]

In the immortal words of Gunny Hiway in Heartbreak Ridge, "Improvise, Adapt, Overcome."

[MP5SD]

Maybe a "war" chat thread would help.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/backroom/browse

[DonnerT]

Now you've wounded me mortally.