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To: dennisw
Hello, dennisw.

Let me lay my cards on the table first: I am a believing, practicing and loyal Roman Catholic.

I also believe that the State of Israel is showing remarkable restraint toards the enemies that are trying to destroy it. I believe that the Palestinians have no legitimate grievances of any kind against either the State of Israel or against individual Jews. I believe that there should be no Palestinian state in the land of Israel.

But I take issue with the demonization of Christianity for two reasons: (1) it is grossly exaggerated and (2) it serves no tactical purpose.

The blood libel was invented as a slander against the Jews in ancient Egypt by the pagan priest Manetho before Christianity was ever heard of - and the blood libel exists nowhere in early Christian literature. It only became current in Europe after Europeans returned from the Crusades in the Middle East.

The Europe from which the Jews were driven was certainly not a Europe which still practiced Christianity as a daily faith - one-half of the voting population of 1930s Europe was affiliated with militant atheism of either the Communist, Syndicalist or Socialist variety.

Fascism was an openly pagan movement, with Mussolini calling for the restoration of the ancient Roman Empire and Hitler extolling the virtues of a nature religion reminiscent of the ancient Canaanites.

Did millions of Christians fail in their moral responsibilities toward their Jewish neighbors? Undoubtedly. My great uncle did not - he died at the Nazi camp in Gusen for hiding undesirables in his rectory.

But the fact today is clear: the vast majority of devout, practicing Christians support the State of Israel and the struggle of the Jewish people for self-determination.

Badmouthing Christians and Christianity serves absolutely no purpose.

27 posted on 03/21/2003 5:47:23 AM PST by wideawake (Support our troops and their Commander-in-Chief)
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To: wideawake
"Let me lay my cards on the table first: I am a believing, practicing and loyal Roman Catholic."

Ahhh, so was Hitler, baptisted, confirmed, cookie eating, Roman CAT-HOLIC who never was excommunicated. He said he was on a "mission for Christ".

Be careful, don't mess with Gods chosen people, or He will mess with you...
God promised both Abraham and his grandson, Jacob: "I will bless them that bless thee, and curse HIM that curseth thee." Gen.12:3, Gen.27:29

History proves this, just take a look at Egypt and Rome. Other examples are Babylon, Persia and Greece. All these were once world super-powers...till they messed with that Jew.

One lesson history proves to us is that if you mess with that Jew God will mess with you!!!
LOVE THE JEWISH PEOPLE!!!
btw, I am not a Jew, but I thank God for them because they brought the gospel to the world!!!

30 posted on 03/21/2003 7:47:27 AM PST by a contender
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To: wideawake
I thank you.

What can I say but that in 1938 Europe was considered a Christian continent with a Jewish minority. The Middle East was considered Muslim turf (territory) with a minority of Christians and Jews. People took their religions more seriously back then. Religions permeated the social and cultural life more so than today. There wasn't TV, video games, computers etc. to clutter one's mind with images, distractions. Yes, the nazis were pagans and so were many (but far from all) of their followers.

The Europe of June 1945 found 60%-65% of European Jews killed or having fled. 60%-65% is my quick estimate based on numbers below. The 3 URLs below give Jewish population estimates. Percentage killed by Nazis in WW2.

http://www.holocaustchronicle.org/HolocaustAppendices.html

http://www.nizkor.org/qar-complete.cgi

http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/Holocaust/36quest1.html#5

How many Jews were murdered in each country and what percentage of the pre-war Jewish population did they constitute?

Answer: (Source: Encyclopedia of the Holocaust)
Austria 50,000 -- 27.0%
Italy 7,680 -- 17.3%
Belgium 28,900 -- 44.0%
Latvia 71,500 -- 78.1%
Bohemia/Moravia 78,150 -- 66.1%
Lithuania 143,000 -- 85.1%
Bulgaria 0 -- 0.0%
Luxembourg 1,950 -- 55.7%
Denmark 60 -- 0.7%
Netherlands 100,000 -- 71.4%
Estonia 2,000 -- 44.4%
Norway 762 -- 44.8%
Finland 7 -- 0.3%
Poland 3,000,000 -- 90.9%
France 77,320 -- 22.1%
Romania 287,000 -- 47.1%
Germany 141,500 -- 25.0%
Slovakia 71,000 -- 79.8%
Greece 67,000 -- 86.6%
Soviet Union 1,100,000 -- 36.4%
Hungary 569,000 -- 69.0%
Yugoslavia 63,300 -- 81.2%

32 posted on 03/21/2003 7:59:33 AM PST by dennisw
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To: wideawake
Badmouthing Christians and Christianity serves absolutely no purpose.

I never badmouth Christianity in general. Israel has many Christian friends and many more Christians who don't buy into the Muslim Jihad lies about Israel. But I do speak about the specifics of the Europe of 1930-1950. This was a Christian continent than drove out it's Jews. Even after 1945 Jews were driven out and many just fled from despair and poverty. Many non Jews also wanted out of post war Europe. To be fair: Not all European Jews were driven out and  killed. Roughly 65% were.

The numbers shows the Nazi machine killing far more Jews in Eastern Europe than in Western Europe. Most of the death camps, extermination camps were in Poland.

If Israel expelled their 1,100,000 Palestinians tomorrow, the comments would be the Jews drove out their Muslim population. Others would say the Israelis drove out their Arab minority.

37 posted on 03/21/2003 8:22:34 AM PST by dennisw
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To: wideawake; maestro
Badmouthing Christians and Christianity serves absolutely no purpose

Very true.

True Christianity is never anti-Jewish (Rom.11:28.

It is only religious groups that go under the name of 'Christian' who think that they have replaced the Jew in God's Plan, who are indifferent to Jews being persecuted.

They are 'wise in their own conceits' (Rom.11:25)

76 posted on 03/21/2003 2:00:05 PM PST by fortheDeclaration
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