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To: Askel5
Was it Christianity or death at the hands of the Romans that was the alternative at Massada? This is actually a rare example of suicide among Jews.

As you mentioned in an earlier posting Jews are continually redefining attitudes and interpretations of holy writings even within sects are common and acceptable and the subject of continuing debate. Agreeing on a single "Judaism" is as impossible at this stage as deciding on a single "Christian church".

The Knesset is a political and not religious body.

Your talk of "summary eviction" I presume was intended to describe Arab evictions? As far as I know properties were purchased from Arab owners legally according to the laws of the land at the time. When the State of Israel was declared there were Arabs who left the country on the advice of the Mufti who promised that they could return after the conquest of the Jews to land and houses that had been improved. The same situation probably applies to Jews from Arab countries who left properties behind them when they were airlifted to Israel to escape prosecution.

13 posted on 03/21/2003 12:34:31 AM PST by FreeReporting
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To: FreeReporting
Was it Christianity or death at the hands of the Romans that was the alternative at Massada? This is actually a rare example of suicide among Jews.

Well, I guess in a way I keep thinking that it was trust in God or death at the hands of the Romans that were the only two alternatives. I still can't justify suicide even if I can relate absolutely to the way folks in Rwanda were BEGGING the Belgian UN troops to machine gun them to death rather than leave them to be hacked to pieces instead.

Agreed on the absolute rarity of suicide. It's just that I came across some reference once to a justification of suicide from the Jewish perspective which alluded to Masada as example. I'll do some more digging. It's an interesting question for me because I can't conceive of a God -- even Allah -- who could justify, much less require, suicide.

I do believe there is a decided difference between being martyred and committing suicide and I think it points to a definite lack of moral justification for Muslim suicide bombers.

I'd just like to make that distinction more clearcut if I can.

As you mentioned in an earlier posting Jews are continually redefining attitudes and interpretations of holy writings even within sects are common and acceptable and the subject of continuing debate. Agreeing on a single "Judaism" is as impossible at this stage as deciding on a single "Christian church".

Well, not quite. Catch me on a Catholic thread for more on the difference between the Church and protestants.

The Knesset is a political and not religious body.

That was my understanding. I just don't understand why the pronouncement was necessary in the first place. Had the State of Israel been making a distinction somehow between Orthodox, Reformed and Conservative which needed remedying? I tried to understand this at the time but didn't get very far and it's still a puzzle to me.

Your talk of "summary eviction" I presume was intended to describe Arab evictions? As far as I know properties were purchased from Arab owners legally according to the laws of the land at the time. When the State of Israel was declared there were Arabs who left the country on the advice of the Mufti who promised that they could return after the conquest of the Jews to land and houses that had been improved. The same situation probably applies to Jews from Arab countries who left properties behind them when they were airlifted to Israel to escape prosecution.

It does appear to have been one big mess and plenty of broken promises from the very beginning. I know the perverse actions of radical Arabs only serve to exacerbate the situation ... leaving plenty of otherwise innocent folks caught in the middle and losing both property and life. I don't see how the situation ever will be resolved.

If there were a blueprint for the "perpetual conflict" that is the ideal of all revolutionaries, I guess this would have to be it.


15 posted on 03/21/2003 12:51:21 AM PST by Askel5
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