Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: freeeee
You'd be surprised, freeee, at how much Marxism and Randian libertarianism have in common. First: flawed view of human nature. Libertarians believe people are naturally good, i.e. "Why shouldn't everyone have a right to have a nuclear bomb? Who in the world would use it for evil purposes?"

And so on.

156 posted on 03/19/2003 10:37:36 AM PST by HumanaeVitae
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 150 | View Replies ]


To: HumanaeVitae
You'd be surprised, freeee, at how much Marxism and Randian libertarianism have in common.

Sure I would. Humor me with an example, if you could.

Libertarians believe people are naturally good

No I don't. I believe people are a mixed sort, some good, some bad.

"Why shouldn't everyone have a right to have a nuclear bomb?

Oh, that old canard. It's been dispelled on this forum ad infinitum, but I'll have another go at it.

You have a right to own a weapon, but not to initiate force with it. For example, you can own a gun, but you can't point it at anyone. Even if you don't pull the trigger, by pointing it you have threatened initial force against another , and that is a violation of rights.

A nuke, by its very existence is akin to a pointed gun. Everyone within its range is subject to the threatened initial force similar to a pointed gun. As such, one has no right to a nuke.

Next.....?

164 posted on 03/19/2003 10:45:25 AM PST by freeeee
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 156 | View Replies ]

To: HumanaeVitae
You'd be surprised, freeee, at how much Marxism and Randian libertarianism have in common.

BWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Libertarians believe people are naturally good

Nonsense. Statists believe that people are naturally good (or, to return to a point you never did get around to answering, that the "people" in government positions are really space aliens or something). Libertarians believe that people cannot be trusted with anything beyond a bare minimum of political power.

171 posted on 03/19/2003 10:50:13 AM PST by steve-b
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 156 | View Replies ]

To: HumanaeVitae

First: flawed view of human nature. Libertarians believe people are naturally good, i.e.

When we look back through history at the root cause of harm inflicted by people against people we find government and religion. In other words, it's not people that are innately bad, it is certain institutions that encourage and facilitate destructive behavior. If people were fundamentally destructive man would have already annihilated the species. Outside of institutionally facilitated destructions the most common destructions are crimes of passion.

Initiating force, fraud or threat of force against any person is a crime that violates the person's inalienable rights no matter who initiates the force -- be it a common petty criminal or politicians and bureaucrats. Wide-scope accounting shows that it is the initiation of force, fraud and threat of force wielded by politicians, bureaucrats and their minions that cause far more harm and suffering to innocent people -- people minding their own business that have harmed no one -- and their property than all other criminals combined.

That's a few thousand criminals in government causing much much more harm and suffering than a million violent criminals on the street. And to think the criminals in government garner respect and prestige. Even in the face of voting for the lesser of two evils always begets evil they garner respect and prestige. They're the champions of false advertising.

But that's par for the "course" and to be expected when the method politicians and bureaucrats use to fund their paychecks and government is threat of force in the first place. So right off the bat politicians and bureaucrats are in bed with creating injustice.

Income taxes are collected by strong arm tactics: "if you don't pay your taxes you'll be fined and go to jail". Conversely, a consumption tax such as the National Retail Sales Tax (NRST) is a voluntary tax. Wherein if you don't want to pay the tax don't buy the item.

First identify who the wealth perpetuator's are --
Praise them and draw them closer.

 Then identify who the parasite criminals are --
Repeal them out of existence.

Compared to the massive fraud implemented by politicians and bureaucrats, fraud in the business community barley registers on the "Richter" scale.

Who are the wealth providers and who are the parasites? Who offers competitive products and services in a free market? Who provides jobs, necessities and luxuries that sustain and enhance human life? Who forces people to buy their services or else go to jail?  Who initiates force, threat of force and fraud?

Politicians and bureaucrats are far more destructive and harmful to innocent people than all petty criminals combined. And for sure, business and science have done more to benefit people than politicians and bureaucrats. Those two -- government and business/science -- for the most part at this point in time are opposing forces.

- -

BTW, I'm not a Libertarian.

184 posted on 03/19/2003 10:57:23 AM PST by Zon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 156 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson