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Libertarians Join Liberals in Challenging Sodomy Law
NYTimes ^ | March 19, 2003 | LINDA GREENHOUSE

Posted on 03/19/2003 12:48:02 AM PST by RJCogburn

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To: Aquinasfan
Well, it used to be obvious, anyway.

Yeah. BTW, for any social conservatives lurking this thread, the socialization argument is an extremely fruitful one. There's no answer the "if I'm not hurting anyone, it's my business" crowd can give to it, because no act happens in isolation.

61 posted on 03/19/2003 9:01:35 AM PST by HumanaeVitae
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To: Aquinasfan
I support sodomy laws when applied to everyone, but I think this Texas law is unconstitutional. For instance,
Cunnilingus:
Between man and woman is OK, but between woman and woman is Not OK.

Fellatio:
Between man and woman is OK, but between man and man is Not OK.

Anal Intercourse:
Between man and woman is OK, but between man and man is Not OK.

Where is the “equal protection under the law?”

I predict that the Supreme Court will strike down this law.

62 posted on 03/19/2003 9:04:16 AM PST by george wythe
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To: Protagoras
God will deal with sinners at the judgement, he does not require your puny efforts to deal with it by violence or the threat thereof.

Well said.

I think they missed the part about it not infringing on others' rights, which is the only legitimate reason to criminalize anything.

63 posted on 03/19/2003 9:05:04 AM PST by jimt
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To: sakic
Neither can heterosexuals so I'm not sure what your point is.

Here's my point. Let's take a "Jamestown Colony" situation, i.e. people having to survive in a state of nature, or harsh conditions.

Heterosexuals can do it because they can have children to (eventually) share the workload and care for the previous generation. The heterosexual "means" of sex is what the human body is designed for, thus there aren't the horrendous diseases and health problems that homosexuals have etc. Heterosexuals are also far more emotionally mature to deal with such a situation, and would construct social and moral structures (nuclear marriage, standards of moral behavior, helping out neighbors, etc.) that would engender survival. Homosexuals, being naturally self-destructive, immature and selfish, could not bring themselves these things.

In short, if you took a group of 200 heterosexuals and put them in a state of nature, and then came back a year later to see how they were faring, some would have died but most likely could hang on. Take a group of 200 homosexuals in the same situation and you'd come back a year later to find 200 skeletons and a bunch of fat buzzards. Homosexuals are far too immature, selfish, and self-destructive to survive in a situation like that.

They can only survive in the context of a heterosexual society. Thus, we can live without them, and they can't live without us. Thus we can regulate their behavior, and because their behavior is uniformly negative and destructive to society (higher health costs, child molestation, etc.) we should.

64 posted on 03/19/2003 9:12:11 AM PST by HumanaeVitae
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To: HumanaeVitae
I have never seen you rant about hetrosexual sin.
65 posted on 03/19/2003 9:16:44 AM PST by Protagoras
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To: Protagoras
You need to brush up on your argumentation skills. Which are currently on the jr. high level.

If HV's arguments are typical of "the jr. high level", then education in this country has swirled even further down the bowl that I'd thought.

66 posted on 03/19/2003 9:22:57 AM PST by steve-b
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To: HumanaeVitae
Your example lacks reality.

Homosexuals are the progeny of heterosexuals. For instance, if my daughter turns out to be a lesbian, she will be as capable as any other woman to contribute to any society, large or small.

Furthermore, homosexuals do marry and have children, especially when that’s necessary for the survival of their society. In poor societies where children are considered to be their “social security” and “medicare” wrapped into one, most homosexuals marry and procreate

67 posted on 03/19/2003 9:23:44 AM PST by george wythe
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To: Aquinasfan
The question isn't whether it is moral to criminalize intrinsically evil acts, the question is whether it is prudent to criminalize particular evil acts.

The basis of totalitarian philosophy is the notion that the limits of state power are set by no principles, but only by the political prudentials of the moment.

68 posted on 03/19/2003 9:25:04 AM PST by steve-b
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To: HumanaeVitae
LOL! Now you're saying that the celebate, the diabetic, and the maimed veteran have no rights.

But of course you're being redundant, since your position is that nobody has any right to speak freely, to keep and bear arms, to be secure in their property, etc.

69 posted on 03/19/2003 9:26:38 AM PST by steve-b
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To: HumanaeVitae
Growing old is not a voluntarily-chosen behavior.

Nonsense. People voluntarily choose not to grow old every single day.

70 posted on 03/19/2003 9:27:50 AM PST by steve-b
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To: Aquinasfan
The difference between these cases is that aging isn't voluntary

Aging is most certainly voluntary. Fire a .45 hollowpoint into your brain pan and you won't age another day.

71 posted on 03/19/2003 9:31:07 AM PST by steve-b
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To: RJCogburn
Libertarians Join Liberals

Just damn.

72 posted on 03/19/2003 9:32:16 AM PST by mhking
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Comment #73 Removed by Moderator

To: steve-b
LOL!

Marilyn Monroe did not grow old.

In all her pictures, she looks like fox.

74 posted on 03/19/2003 9:32:51 AM PST by george wythe
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To: Protagoras
God will deal with sinners at the judgement, he does not require your puny efforts to deal with it by violence or the threat thereof.

Depends on what God you worship, doesn't it?

The God you and I believe in is perfectly capable of looking out for Himself. The one worshipped by Mohammad Atta and some FReepers is a weak sort who needs minions.

75 posted on 03/19/2003 9:34:01 AM PST by steve-b
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Comment #76 Removed by Moderator

To: steve-b

77 posted on 03/19/2003 9:35:53 AM PST by Protagoras
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To: HumanaeVitae
Your logic is compelling. For instance, let's get rid of those silly old legal technicalities for investigations of accused paedophile priests (the rest of society can survive without men who won't boink women, but they as you have explained cannot survive without the rest of society) and just string 'em up. They have no right to a fair trial -- as you'll agree, since you believe that nobody at all has such a right.
78 posted on 03/19/2003 9:36:46 AM PST by steve-b
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To: RJCogburn
even a stopped clock is right twice a day
79 posted on 03/19/2003 9:38:46 AM PST by Daveinyork
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Comment #80 Removed by Moderator


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