American Bishop Bars Faithful from War Effort

Catholic World News ^ | March 18, 2003 | staff

[Aquinasfan]

Ah! But is it catholic moral theology or does the catholic church think more about it's own traditions and political structure than Jesus Chrsit and His teachings.

The Catholic or Universal Church is the Church that Christ founded. The Church produced and protects the Oral and Written Traditions of the Apostles. The bishops are the successors of the Apostles (Acts 1:20). Christ is the head of the Church; the pope is His representative on earth (Isaiah 22:22, Matthew 16:19). The Church, under the guidance and protection of the Holy Spirit, also derives certain teachings from data contained within the Sacred Written and Oral Traditions, leading Christ's followers into all truth as Scripture promises.

Where do your doctrines come from? Martin Luther? Your abridged Bible?

[de_oppresso_liber1]

THE CHURCH PATHETIC


We once had a common saying in the Catholic Church. It reflects the universal and transcendent reality of our faith. The Church Triumphant, The Church Suffering, and The Church Militant.
The Church Triumphant represents the victorious Christian saints in Heaven worshipping before the Throne of God. The Church Suffering represents those righteous Christians who having died with venial sins on their soul are now in a place called Purgatory anxiously awaiting the final purgation of these sins so that they may fully join the saints in Heaven. Lastly, we have the Church Militant consisting of us earthly mortals fighting everyday in a fallen world against the wily snares of the devil and his minions as faithful Christian soldiers pursuing a life of holiness and grace.
Well, this is how it was explained to my parents and grandparents at least when they attended catechism classes before the Second Vatican Council. It was only when attending seminary in the 1990’s that I learned this ancient yet novel way of expressing our participation in the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.
I remember much to the chagrin of my seminary professors of expressing my approval of this simple way of explaining the universality of our Catholic Faith. This truth remains today for the educated believer even though you will hardly find it in the polite non-offending catechism books used by the average 8th grade Catholic religious education teacher. Today, we are the People of God. People who happen to have been born to parents who happen to have been born to parents who were once long ago raised Catholic. We are the People of God. How nice.
Tonight, on Saint Patrick’s Day, we heard from the President of the United States in his address to the American people on the eve of a potential war with Iraq. How I wish we had bishops in the Church with the collective fortitude of this non-Catholic president.
Just as Saint Patrick drove the snakes from Ireland and brought forth a land ruled by order and law, our President prepares to drive the snakes of Baghdad from their palace bunkers into the light that exposes the serpent’s sins. The breastplate of our President is not only the strength of the American Army but the spirit of the American soldier who by his noble service embodies the glorious virtues that have brought generations of freedom loving people to our shores.
Why is it that our American president is more in tune with the practicing Catholic than the bishops of my Catholic faith? How has it come to this that I find myself easily taking the position of supporting my President over the confused prelates who lead the people of God? Why am I at a lost to explain this disconnect between the Successor to Saint Peter and the Successor to George Washington? Why can’t my Church grant its imprimatur to our Christian President and this resolute cause to liberate the oppressed? Why do I, a Catholic man whose forefathers escaped famine and religious bigotry, whose great-great-grandfather fought in a Civil War wearing Yankee blue to save the Union, feel so Un-American!
“They just don’t get it.” These were the words I overheard from the non-Catholic businessman standing at the airline ticket counter as he read the front page of his USA Today about the sexual scandals engulfing the Catholic Church. Being so thoroughly ashamed of my brother priests and acknowledging the weakness of Saint Peter who denied our Lord three times, I was wearing civilian clothes when I asked the man, “Who doesn’t get it.” Pointing to the picture of Cardinal Law the man said, “They, the bishops. They just don’t get it.” Having straddled the delicate balance of the faithful priest-son since my ordination I already knew he was speaking of my fathers in faith.
I had hoped that after enduring our year of horrific shame, my fathers in faith would have gotten “it” but I was being very, very naïve. The damage had already been done.
And so tonight as I watched my President fulfill the obligations of his oath my thoughts wandered back to that hot, summer day in Houston at the airline ticket counter and the words of the non-Catholic businessman.
Here we stand at the brink of a New World Order and the never-ending quest of freedom-loving people to “liberate the oppressed.” It is not by coincidence that this is the motto (DE OPPRESSO LIBER) of our Special Forces soldiers who most likely are deep within enemy territory putting words into practice.
No doubt many of these Special Forces soldiers are faithful, practical Catholic men who will fulfill their duty placing their trust not only in their professional training but in their Catholic Faith.
For these men and the millions of practicing Catholic-Americans praying for them and our President. “They get it.”

Written by “Sacerdote”

[NoCalEyes]

Who's got the Guido Sarducci picture from Saturday Night Live...
(complete joke.. The Jesuit Priest I know would have this guy for lunch ! !)

[cookcounty]

But has he commented on torturing little boys yet? How come that isn't a mortal sin?

[Coleus]

Catholic Just War.org

Catholic Just War Update
New Remarks:

Have you heard what the Pope has said about the war?  Or only what the media has told you? (Read his Address)

Also read Ambassador to the Vatican’s Interview (Read Article)
News:  A Call during the Arab Summit for Saddam to step down and go into exile (Read Story)
Iraq’s Deception: Iraq pledges to disarm some weapons, but this tactic was used before to stall for time (Read Story)
Catholic Debate Rages: Many Catholics continue to debate the justification for war (Read Some Postings)
Resources: Summa Theologica on War & War, a Catholic technical definition

Catholic Just War Update March 7, 2003
New to the Site:

Cardinal Laghi, Special Envoy from the Holy See, met with President Bush (Read his statement)

Noted Catholic Scholar Responds to this Statement (Read The War is Just)

Are Catholics free to disagree on the conclusion of the just war doctrine? (Read Deal Hudson's Article)

Wisdom:

Particularly relevant to the discussion of the pending war with Iraq and countries such as France standing against the war is this quote.  This is from Maritain's France My Country Through the Disaster (1941), pps.16-17:

"Could the democracies have avoided the war?  They unquestionably could have avoided this war if they had had the wit and moral courage either to forestall Hitler's taking power by adopting at once a generous and firm policy toward Germany while she was still disarmed, or by overthrowing Hitler before he got too strong.  Instead of that, both in England and in France, the democracies wretchedly deserted their own cause and their own ideals everywhere in the world and allowed themselves to be led to the slaughter by an incompetent and not altogether honest leadership. . . .
Nations that want to survive and live in peace have to understand that neither of these two goals is to be attained without clearly facing the risk of war; it is only when the existence of this risk has been taken cognizance of and accepted that it is possible to adopt an intelligent enough policy to obviate it.  The European democracies understood this too late.  Every democracy whose rule of life is not heroic but hedonistic will grasp such things too late."

Catholic Just War Update

According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church "Peace is the work of justice and the effect of charity." (CCC # 2304).  This is the peace that must be sought after not simply the absence of war.  This war was not sought after but rather it was thrust upon us.  Saddam still has within his power the ability to avoid this war.  The United States and the other members of the coalition have exhausted all other diplomatic means and it has come to this.  Would it be just to leave Saddam in power after his lawlessness and dangerous behavior?  Would it be charitable to ignore this threat to Iraq's neighbors, the Iraqi people, and the United States?

News:

• President Bush’s Final Warning to Saddam (Read his remarks:www.catholicjustwar.org/bush.asp) 
• Archbishop O'Brien of the Military Archdiocese says a pre-emptive strike can be justified (Read Interview: www.catholicjustwar.org/obrien.asp)
• The Catholic Debate continues - Fox News and CNN have interviewed members of Catholics for a Just War. (Read Excerpts: www.catholicjustwar.org/fox.asp)
• Fr. Neuhaus on Why War with Iraq is Justified (Read Interview: www.catholicjustwar.org/neuhaus.asp)
• Update on the Catholic Petition -   6% have reservations, 5% believe it would be unjust, but 89% believe this is a just war. (www.catholicjustwar.org/results.asp)

Catholic Just War Update

Bishop's Statement Clarified

If you have not heard already there is a bishop in Ohio that has stated the war is intrinsically evil and (at least in his Romanian rite diocese) Catholics can not participate in this war under pain of sin.  He states that participation in this war is as if you were participating in an abortion.  The authority upon which he states this is beyond his scope as a bishop. This bishop states, "I hereby authoritatively state that such direct participation (in this war) is intrinsically and gravely evil and therefore absolutely forbidden."  He is not stating his opinion or even using this as public opportunity to challenge or educate.  On the contrary he says he is not speaking "as a theologian or as a private Christian voicing his opinion, nor by any means am I speaking to you as a political partisan. I am speaking to you solely as your bishop with the authority and responsibility I... have been given as a successor to the apostles on your behalf."

Like many of you this statement frustrated me, so I contacted the diocese directly.  Their response was polite and respectful but they did not offer a clarification and would not consider a retraction.  So I pursued a clarification from Archbishop O'Brien of the Military Ordinariate.   More quickly then I expected I received a fax from the diocesan offices of the Military Ordinariate.  Archbishop O'Brien is a great and worthy bishop who used his experience, knowledge and faithfulness to help bring clarity to Bishop Botean's statement. 

In response to my inquiry, Archbishop O'Brien reaffirmed that the position of the bishops and the Church is not and has not been that this war is evil or unjust.  He took exception to Bishop Botean's statements regarding this war and clarified that soldiers can in good conscience serve their Commander in Chief in this war.  He also made the point that Catholics in good conscience can disagree about the conclusion in using the just war doctrine.  His letter in response can be read online at http://www.catholicjustwar.org/obrienreply.asp.

Many people are being confused by this bishop's statement and I urge you to spread Archbishop O'Brien's response far and wide.

For more on this topic: Read Posts at Brumley's Blog  & Read a Canon Lawyer's Blog (regarding Bishop Botean's statement)

Other Items:

• William Bennett articulates Why We Must Fight - and Now!
• The Legality of the Use of Force In The liberation of Iraq (Read Article)

Thank You. For those of you who sent in a $25 contribution to help defray the costs of website development, maintenance and promotion.  Since Amazon does not supply us with the contributor's information I am not able to contact you directly.  Thank you again.

***If you would like to make a contribution to Catholics for a Just War visit: http://www.amazon.com/paypage/PF90BNDCHFC75

 

[Coleus]

ping

[griffin]

Actually, interpretation of scripture does not occur outside of what normally is accepted by leading protestant theologians. Heresy is heresy no matter who makes the claim that scripture means something it does not.

There are clear standards of Biblical interpretation. The catholic church throughout the centuries has twisted scripture to achieve monetary and political ambitions.

Many protestant groups twist scripture to achieve monetary and power ambitions. Great theologians interpret scripture and have verifiable reasons for their conclusions. The pope hides behind infallability and any rejection of that idea was anathema.

Never mind the catholic churches problem with heretical popes. Don't you find it amazing that Pope Honorius I was condemed by the Sixth General Council for teaching the heretical idea of monothelite? It appears that Pope Leo II confirmed his anathematization.

What is up with this?

[griffin]

"Very interesting. Thanks for the post. Was EVERYONE against the "apocryphal" books before Augustine? Why would Origen need to argue against them if it was commonly believed? I know that the Catholic Apocrypha differs from the Protestant Apocrypha."

Thanks for your reply. Sorry I was such a bonehead about it. I'm not sure if everyone was in agreement that the Apocryphal books prior to Augustine. From what I've seen to date, most early Christian fathers agreed, in general, with Origen and later Jerome. I haven't dug into it yet. It seems the historical accounts I read appear to be tainted with the presenter's bias because some protestant presenters are leaving out some details and other catholic presenters are leaving out details...I'm having to read everything and put the pieces together....Origen did not argue per se against them in 225. It appears to be a conclusion drawn from the records in the way he handled and commented about scripture.

Apocrypha differes? In what way. The Apocrypha books themselves are not in dispute are they? I did not pick up any indication of that. Perhaps if your refering to the differences in subsequent translations since the Septuagint?

[griffin]

"Christ did not say to ignore what the Pharisses did but to surpass them in holiness. He granted that they were following the letter of the law and that is fine AS LONG AS you do not neglect the weightier matters of law. "

I guess the part of scripture that comes to mind is Christ healing the woman in the temple on the Sabbath....or healing the crippled man on the Sabbath and taking up his mat and going home. Christ was chastized for doing work on the Sabbath. The Pharisees not only blindly followed their OWN law in that they declared no one should perform work on the Sabbath, but they did it at the expense of God's peoples good. I would agree that Christ did not specifically tell people to ignore what the Pharisee's did in total....but much of what they did they did to gain a false sense of importance, arrogance and in a selfish way wield their own power against the peasants of the day....with little regard to being true to God's Law. Their hearts were not right with God, so God hardened their heart and blinded them to the Truth.

At least that is my take and the way I understand Christ, his message and scriptures today....but I am always learning. What did you have in mind when you were refering to 'weightier matters of law'? Cheers.

[griffin]

"This only leads to more questions. Were the Protestants guided by the Holy Spirit? Are you looking at secular material history where the Holy Spirit is not involved? Are you accepting the earlier canon out of a sense of tradition? Inquiring minds want to know. "

I believe all of God's elect begin to be guided by the Holy Spirit when the Spirit regenerates them, to use a theological term. I would not call Greek and Hebrew Lexicons (such as Thayer's, Strong's, etc., or a good concordance, secular. These are the aids to which I refer since I do not currently have the inclination to learn ancient Hebrew or Greek.

I believe it important to know how the original writers of God's scripture came to use specific words and the subtlties behind specific words. Take the English word 'love'. The Greek manuscripts have different words that translated into the single English word 'love'. I believe it important to know, when reading scripture, to know which exact definition Paul had in mind (through Divine inspiration) when penning his letter.

At the current, I am accepting the canon as determined in part by the Vulgate, and later modified by Luther due to what I can not now reject as unreasonable motivations.

[griffin]

"That wasn't my point. Your definition begs the question of what is and isn't Scripture. Scripture doesn't provide its own canon. It's not self-defining.

Logically and necessarily, an extra-Biblical authority must determine the canon of Scripture. That authority is Christ's Church, "the pillar and foundation of truth."

You appearantly had many points. One of which was to incorectly call the well know and establish principal of using the Bible to define it's own terms (define it's own definitions in the knowledge that scripture will not contradict itself and it's terms) and called it a doctrine.....and an unbiblical one at that. Perhaps in your speed to reply and not absorb my intent in writing you mistakenly thought I advocated the idea that the Bible itself determines which books are included in it. That would be silly as a created thing can not create itself.

But now you twist the conversation to go from an attempt to correctly interpret scriptural verses to the subject of the canon....you are confusing the topics in your reply. And now you want to expand the conversation to present the false idea that Christ's church refers to a single political establishment of man only, but ignore the idea that Christ's church could possibly refer to a body of believers.

You seemed to be in such a hurry to cut and paste online bible search results for the term 'baptism' that you failed to take anything I said seriously. In my main response to you I complied a decent presentation, peppered within it many scriptural references, yet you blew right past and made what appears to be arguments without thinking to much about what you were saying.

Again, making a claim, and splattering scriptural verses on the page that contain the word 'baptism' does not go far in convincing me of anything. In fact, I have no intention of replying to such presentations in the future.

[griffin]

Re:301

The catholic church's history is a history of hypocrisy.....just like the Pharisee's self declared holiness was. You can claim anything you wish. How is it that infallible popes can be condemned for teaching heresy? No, the catholic church has for some time vested WAY too much power within itself by twisting scripture at best, and propagating heresy, knowingly, at worst. Most modern protestant organizations are teaching heresy as well so the catholic church is not alone. Luther was very correct to boldly do what he did. I sincerely hope that the catholic church recovers the True faith.

[griffin]

"Then it shouldn't be hard to find one mention of "personal relationship with Christ." (Please note the quotation marks.)"

Those with eyes, let them see.

[Arthur McGowan]

Real clever. I'll bet you stayed up all night thinking that one up.

[ninonitti]

"Byzantine-right Romanian Catholics

Sounds much more like Byzantine-LEFT Romanian to me.

[lavaroise]

An American Catholic bishop has forbidden his flock from participating or cooperating in military action against Iraq, under pain of mortal sin.

To see catholic dig again their inquisition rhetoric and marry it with jolly jihad 72 virgin speeches of rewards in heaven is really showing how true colors are popping out left and right.

Heaven was never meant as a carrot and stick treatment on us mortals, God forbid! This Bishop is talking the language of Satan. God is not to police us but to implore us the worthy characters in heaven, that is all. This Bishop belongs to a church of Satan, and I pray that US soldiers be not influenced by his deceiving and wicked invocations to the Devil.

[TradicalRC]

You still did not answer my question: was Luther guided by the Holy Spirit but the Catholic Church was not? How do you know this?

[TradicalRC]

There are books such as Tobit and Maccabees in the Catholic canon that Protestants refer to as Apocrypha. There are other books that are extra-canonical in some Catholic Bibles such as Enoch that WE refer to as Apocryphal. I believe that Enoch describes what Christ was doing between dying on the Cross and Ressurecting.