US, Backers Responsible Before God on Iraq - Vatican

Reuters | 3/18/03

[kattracks]

March 18

— VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - The Vatican said Tuesday that countries which decided to wage war on Iraq without the consensus of the international community were assuming great responsibility before God and history.

"Those who decide that all peaceful means that international law makes available are exhausted assume a grave responsibility before God, their conscience and history," said Vatican spokesman Joaquin Navarro-Valls.

Navarro-Valls comment was the Vatican's first official reaction to Washington's ultimatum to Iraqi President Saddam Hussein to go into exile within 48 hours or face war.

[FITZ]

Too bad the Pope can't be more like Reagan (a great man) who said "Peace through strength". Yes we want peace ---but not the peace of surrenders who decide being conquered is preferable to fighting back. Peace through weakness???

[roses of sharon]

When was the last time this man spoke about terrorism?

For 20 years terrorist have been wandering the globe, killing innocents.

And not a word from this man.

[jwalsh07]

Who said you were Fitz? I criticise the church all the time especially concerning their view taht this is not a just war and their failure to deal with the homosexualiity run rampant in the priesthood.

I just made the argument that bashing the Catholic Church based on peoples perception of what they did or did not do in 1939 isn't a real good idea to make a moral argument because the history is that the US does the same.

[laz17]

I don't read it that way.

You should... if you have eyes to see and ears to hear.

[razorbak]

the Holy Father is standing up and saying there are consequences for actions

There is only one "Holy Father," and he resides in Heaven. That is the gist of the Scripture passage:

Matt.23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

[FITZ]

Okay ---I think we can agree that the Church needs to clean up it's own house before it can really claim any moral position right now. I was horrified by the homosexual priests getting by with the crimes they committed. Not that those are rampant in our entire society ---but I expected more from the Church. And now they're telling us to follow the UN???? They need to be condemning the UN for it's abortion policies.

[Cap'n Crunch]

I say let those who hear the words of the Pope reflect on them. The masses should be able to comment without hateful-unChristian comments.

I believe this thread was started to bash the Pope. These threads all get the same results, the litany of name calling and accusations against the Church.

And may I remind our Christian FReepers of the words of Our Lord: "For I say unto you, that every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgement."-Matthew XII. 36.

[Kevin Curry]

You don't believe that Saddam and his sons have been paying very close attention to words of powerful influential institutions including the Vatican these past few weeks and months?

Saddam has been reported as being very pleased with the anti-war cabal. It's the only good news he gets. It has given him hope. Common sense and a general understanding of the ways of the world tell you that the Vatican's words have comforted Saddam and his sadist sons and that they are therefore less inclined to fold and surrender than they would otherwise be. How could it be otherwise?

At one point in the late 1960s, the North Vietnamese government was completely demoralized and very close to ending the war. Then Ho Chin Minh and the leadership saw and heard an upwelling of leftist flower-power anti-war protests (including the voices of influential Catholic leacders) in the west and found new hope. The war dragged on for several more years resulting in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of more people.

That's what happens when you give hope where there was none before. Giving hope to a WMD-coveting sadist madman and his sons is very vile. It ought to be considered aiding and abetting in the mass murder of innocents. Isn't that a mortal sin?

[jeremiah]

The intent, is to hold the loss of innocent life to a minimum Sorry, but no person in this world is innocent, according to the church, they are all sinners before God. The people of Iraq in particular, are responsible before God for anything Saddam does, they tolerate him, and refuse the necessary sacrifice, that must be undertaken to rid themselves of his rule. They slough the responsibility to our country, and we will take that seriously.

[Bluntpoint]

Did you put on your angry eyes today?

Nixon did wonderful things also. He still did a few other things that were not so admirable. I am Still able to comment on Hitler's bad things aren't I?

[cyncooper]

"Those who decide that all peaceful means that international law makes available are exhausted assume a grave responsibility before God, their conscience and history,"

It seems you may be the one who needs Q-tips and an eye exam.

Have all peaceful means been exhausted? Yes. And this is an international issue.

Are the willing assuming a grave responsibility? Yes.

Is there a consensus? No, there is not, as we have the infamous French, Germans, etc..

Yet "those who decide" will go forth, assuming the grave responsibility, nonetheless, certainly before God, their conscience (clear as a bell) and history (which will judge us well).

There is nothing wrong, and everything right, with this statement.

[jwalsh07]

Arguments ad absurdum are absurd.

Comprende'?

[cyncooper]

You assume the Pope is anti-war. I do not.

[jwalsh07]

Here's a test. Would President Bush agree with this statement?

I think he would and he would do so with the knowledge that he is right.

[ladyjane]

I don't know why, but it seem that the Vatican has always had a soft spot in its heart for countries that hate Israel.

Hey, I thought we were bashing Catholics. Anti-semite bashing is on the other thread.

[Kevin Curry]

I believe this thread was started to bash the Pope.

The Vatican has strayed into Caesar's realm to play politics. It is not "Catholic-bashing" to point out the terrible consequences of this foolishness.

Good, faithful Catholics will still be good, faithful Catholics regardless of the errors in judgment of the Vatican. Jesus Christ--not some secular-trained Catholic bishop--is their Shepherd. They know his voice, and He knows His sheep by name.

The Vatican is repeating its horrific errors that have so often stained and marred its existence since Constantine transformed the church from a persecuted flock into a secular world power.

[aeronca]

when the Vatican did almost nothing about child molesting priests?

Hush-money to the victims?

[Cap'n Crunch]

I hope your not referring to people like Sen. Ted Kennedy as catholics. I haven't seen many 'catholic' politicians who are in fact catholic.

[cyncooper]

Here's a test. Would President Bush agree with this statement?

I think he would and he would do so with the knowledge that he is right.

Exactly.

[Romulus]

the Church that sat on it's hands while Hitler murdered 6 million jews,

You lie.